Safe Speed Forums

So what is the penalty for parents who don't care enough about their kids to ensure they are properly versed in the correct behaviour around the roads?

I don't think anyone here disputes that traffic should always travel at an appropriate speed, but as your comment indicates you are well aware, that does not always coincide with that which is legal. This is particularly true when limits that have previously been 30, or even higher, are reduced to 20 on a political whim.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

If a child ran into a road at the wrong moment in front of a car travelling at 5mph, say from behind a parked lorry, they could still be killed.

No matter how much some people might hate to admit it, it's far, far better to stop children running into the road inappropriately than it is to attempt to blame the problem on "speed". Just because that fact makes camera supporters look foolish, it's not any less true. As long as we have cars (and I know some people would rather we didn't), we have to make sure that children don't go onto roads at the wrong time, and making sure that that happens will always be infinitely more effective at preventing accidents than obsessing about drivers' free-travelling speeds being below a particular number. Yes, drivers should look out for children and other hazards, and no, they shouldn't be going too fast, but neither of those things are even close to being a substitute for making sure that children don't run into the road. They can only ever limit the damage, and as we know, putting too much emphasis on drivers' free-travelling speeds can actually increase the impact speed if a child does end up being allowed to enter the road at the wrong time.

I see that you do at least recognise that there's a difference between an appropriate and a legal speed though.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

The ultimate penalty is that they:
1. Get to indentify the remains.
2. Get to register the death and receive the certificate of same.
3. Get to arrange the burial of same (cremation requires a different procedure if the death was violent etc, so I'm told)
4. Get to either dispose of the belongings of said child or make a shrine to said child.
5. Get to spend the rest of their lives saying: "what if I ......."

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Why are the second and third last words relevant?


Your faith is touching.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

http://www.abd.org.uk/index.htm

ABD. J J Leeming, accidental expert.





Seems things do not and will not, change.






Do not, will not ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

But very prolific in number in rural area und near stables



No they don't. They do get prosecuted in my own country if they . und so do the parents It called "responsible behaviour"

Children.. As said at start .. you need to be very vigilant with them und keep tight hold on reins with the little ones. Constantly telling them in fun to easy remember way that they need to look out for others on the roads .. to use Green Cross at all times. That roads are not playgrounds.


In this case - he slipped their hand. Nothing anyone could have done. Lowering speed limit or whacking up a scam would not have prevented this type of accident. Reins might have. Placing yourself between child und the kerb also gives that little bit of reaction time should they slip hand or reins und run. But this was the unfortunate type of accident which no one could have foreseen or avoided at that tragic second.





I would be making for the fire extinguisher very fast. They usually kept in easy to reach points all around the forecourt. I also keep one in the car At the front within easy reach.

I keep plasters/bandaging und a rescusc mask in handbag. I do not have room in there for a fire extinguisher as a woman's handbag has to have the "warpaint touch ups"


There would be very greatest danger of explosion if the person who set himself on fire there staggered into stack of oil cans or the petrol pump itself.. So adrenalin charge or not .. the first action of a first aider ist to be aware of the dangers as it does not help the person in need if you also end up "done to a crisp"




Nein. Roads are not playgrounds. Main roads especially.

NO parent with a brain cell to his or her name should be allowing them to do that There ist here a matter of courtesy to rest of society as it not just the drivers on those roads . but the cyclists und the pedestrians who will not wish to dodge a football or a running child either. Especially if person elderly.. or wheelchair bound or even on a mobility scooter or simply pushing a pram with tiny tots on the reins.

But I read of a cul-de-sac story. The residents successfully applied for a ban on the kids playing football in their street as it was a nuisance to their enjoying the tranquillity of their homes.

But where the children do play out on the roads.. these would be on residentials und the only folk charging around on them are.. er.. the residents for the most part

But even then ... there should be an awareness that a car will pass. I do note when I visit the in-laws in the big 'burb that the children playing out on that residential road do stop.. wait till car passes und een give a cheery salute! They were aged about 8-15 years. Three of them did belong to Jazz .. my in-law Must be her influences

SO you see - it ist quite possible to educate properly after all. Children are not stupid. Their brains are like sponges. They are suprisingly quick on up-take. It only when they turn into teenagers that we get the "grunts" und the "dunnos" und the ability to sleep through an earthquake whilst their hi-fi on full blast und a complete demolition job of whatever in fridge und larder.. followed by a trail of clothing...all over the floor leading to bed.. (I need a snoring smiley really.. bless the little s )

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

It is very sad about the little boy and his family torment but you have to look at the real picture. Millions upon millions have been spent on traffic calming measures, cameras, high profile traffic policing(speeding really), road improvements, signing, warnings, adverts, TV programs FOR THE LAST 15 to 20 years. And in that time there have been numerous claims by government, local authorities and police as to how well its all working and saving lives. Then a real grown up person comes along and even using their own manipulated figures, points out how LITTLE has changed over that long period in fact a steady average increase over all those years. When will grown ups in positions of authority or influence do something about the real problems which include, culture, attitude, inadequate training often by inadequate instructors, inadequate testing standards, poor policing of driving standards, even poorer attention to prosecution and penalty if and when someone comes before the courts under a poor driving standard charge. NOTHING WILL CHANGE until all those factors that cause people to be inadequate or irresponsible are addressed head on. Im sorry to say, no matter what the current concensus, other little boys are going to die over the next 15 yrs or so, its time for another approach rather than the petty money making schemes and gullable populous pasification tactics.

40 years ago, when I was a child, it was all so simple.

In our little close, all the dads would drive off to work at between 8 to 8.30pm. Then the Royal Mail Parcel van would come at about 10.30am. Every Tuesday the roadsweeper machine would come at about noon. Sometimes the very pretty young blond lady who lived at the top of the close would drive off in her open-topped sports car (Triumph Spitfire she had at one time), with her sunglasses sometimes on her head, sometimes on her eyes.

And for the rest of the day, the road was for us kids to play on. Oh, the odd vehicle would come. The bread man, milk man in his float, TV repairman, gas man, sometimes and the like. But the road was quiet.

Not now. Now, people -not just the men, now!- have different start times, so they are coming and going all the time. Some of the original residents still live there and are retired now. The very pretty young blond lady is now not that young, though still stunning for her age, still goes up and down, but she has a 4x4, now. Delivery vans drive up and down at all times of the day.

From being a quiet close, the road is now like an urban race track with various vehicles coming up and down all the time.

Life is not like it was. Roads are not suitable as playing areas, as they once were. It's sad, but that's the reality.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

The only way that story could have been worse is if the blond had a sex change

Sadly, I can relate to it all too well Thatsnews. I think most of us can these days

(Don't know if it's just me, but whenever I see your name I think of the guy a while ago who kept calling you Thatsnew )

I always remember, as a lad in Cornwall, my mum would never lock the door. There was no problem leaving the money for the milkman on the kitchen surface. He would walk in, take what he was due and leave any change.

I have had to erect a portcullis where I live now complete with starving Rotweilers chained to the front.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Good job we have the internet, sounds like it's the only way we can all communicate with you.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

When all is said and done, these situations are arising with increasing frequency, thanks entirely to the current government-driven climate of corporate responsibility, nannyism and litigious retribution. The more responsibility removed from the individual for the consequences of their own actions, the less responsible those individuals become for themselves and their fellows. Couple this with the cerebral cotton wool that is Political Correctness and, Bingo! You have the situation that we see today - irresponsible behaviour rewarded by 'no win, no fee' litigation and the survival of the 'speed kills' myth.

Give them bread and circuses...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

I must take you to task about that statement.
I hope the portcullis has no sharp points ?
Because if it has it may breach public safety regulations. Even if it has no points you may need to check that the systems to regulate its movement are capable of being locked into a safe position when not being used. If the unit is being powered by a motor, you may need a safety cut-off switch to stop movement in an emergency.
Now, about the starving rottweilers.
As you are aware you have a responsibility for animals in your care. That includes an obligation to ensure that they are fed and watered.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

There's probably a few more you missed

I've had to take it down now anyway, someone stole the metalwork and shipped it to China

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It's ok I'm sure it's a safety portcullis...

As for the feeding and watering of animals, that's what the trespassers are for.....

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

PKB, or burnt black pot calling a kettle black but the kettle isn't actually burnt black.

Bombus, if you took 100 children running into the road 'at the wrong moment' and being struck by a car at 5mph, and then 100 children running into the road 'at the wrong moment' and being struck by a car moving at 35mph, sure there may be some fatalties in the 5mph test group, but far far far less that in the 35mph test group.

Weepej. one would note a "herd of kids". But let me put it this way.. if our kids just ran into road - then they get a immediate instruction of dangers.. Green Cross - und a very graphic explanation of the consequences. I call this responsible parenting. Punishment for stupidity would be based as always on how serious the daftness at the time. We have a "chill out/calm down area" for the heated tantrum" If a "tired tantrum" - they retire to this area with a soothing milky drinky of their choice to calm down before bed .. which will be normal with the bedtime story.

Serious misdemeanours? We fine them from their allowances Ground them or restrict access to fave toys for a set period of 1-2 days or so. These sanctions exist .. but we used only once when son number two pulled a smoking fags number on us at age 14 years und a foster son drank us dry und got a bit over-sozzled.

My point? We parents have a responsibilty to teach our children well -to be responsible for own safety for life.. to be responsible for actions for life .. und to be DECENT, kind und tolerant people.


I know Riggers will post that somehow we have lost the plot on this one. Maybe. I choose to hope not all the same. I am most interested in your views as to how we as society educate und teach to this responsibilty of safety... regard to all others und living in reality here. Safety relies really on our interaction. common sense .. common sense of decency.. responsibility for own actions... courtesy.. nice manners .. consideration.

It goes for cyclists // walkers.. horse riders . old folk on mobility scooters as well. too.

So what do you suggest to right things across the board as this ist what discussion on this board about und NOT scoring banter points really. I admit I do tease a little to try to brighten . but this just to lighten up und be eternal optimist as to be otherwise does not exactly work. Und those who look on the bright side do survive here

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Did you know there was a new feature called the foes list? Guess who I'm about to add. (I had decided not to add you, but on reflection I think that in your case, the ratio of useless trolling to interesting contributions is easily high enough for you to qualify. Perhaps my memories of you had become somewhat rose-tinted.)


And if the children never ran into the road at all then there would be no fatalities. So, what should we do? Make drivers travel at 5mph (or whatever) everywhere, thereby supposedly having "less" (the correct grammar is "fewer") fatalities*, or just stop children running into the road (which I never did as a child, because I had responsible parents)? If "slower is safer" then why not take it even further and make drivers travel at 1mph? 0.1mph? 0mph (which of course is what the closet car-haters, like you, want**)? Where does it stop, and why? (Why does it currently stop at 20mph? Isn't it just a nice round number? Wouldn't a lower number be "safer", and if not, why not?) The trolls never have proper answers to questions like these, probably because there aren't any, since the obsession with numerical speed is ludicrous, and cannot ever fit with the principles of good and safe driving.

Great to see you back BTW. I'm sorry I won't be reading any more of your oh-so-stimulating and original contributions.

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* I dispute this anyway because impact speed cannot be implied from free-travelling speed (thereby showing the obsession with free-travelling speed to be totally misguided). The chances of a child running into the road at the wrong moment are actually pretty small.

** Except, as previously discussed, for yourselves. It's like the "environmentalists" who criticise plane travel...at their conferences in Bali. (Maybe that's where you've just come back from.) Saying "I like driving my car" doesn't mean that you don't think others shouldn't be driving, it just makes you a hypocrite. BTW, the forum software now allows longer signatures, so I've now put the rest of the quote in mine, one part of which is "Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly", which tallies with you and the other car-hating trolls that I've encountered.

_________________
Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Absolutely, but the balance here seems to be that children should be 100% responsible all the time, and people in cars shouldn't even bother to consider that a child might run or step out out into the road, and if they do, well, tough luck.

Vacuous and pernicious, and absolutely leads to people calling for lower speed limits, so the idiots that wish to drive like they're on a train track and not a public road cause any damage that they are ultimately going to cause at a lower speed.

I as parent of our kittens und the fosters must judge when they matured or learned enough to run errand for us safely. Or visit pals without the parent "interfering"

Let me put it this way.. und I use Lukas und Andrew as example. They not mind. They "feel important here"

Andrew ist adopted. He knows his past as it affect his life all the time. He was born addicted to heroin. His parents die in due course from addiction. He safe enough now .. but we are careful here all the same. I was so proud of him when he become independent cyclist at age 5 years.

I teach him like the others .. from second they learn to talk..toddle in gentlest chunks about road safety und cars.

I think a very caring parent will do this.

But we also try to preach COAST und we also tell folk that Frankin on page 50 onwards also speak COAST in a different way.. but ist still COAST regardless

weepej.. we all know two wrongs here will never make things right. We need to try to remedy these wrongs here.


We not ever the enemy.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!