Safe Speed Forums

Because in many circumstances 30mph is far too fast.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Give the group a mile or two , and distances between individuals would decrease as concentration became slack -- some one realises that they're too close - panic brakes ----bang --you've got a major crash or you'd get the wave effect ,with lots of braking- apart from that - how many cars (even of the same make/model ) have the same " favourite speed " ( one that feels natural and not forced or makes the car stressed)---so how could a group of cars be expected to travel at exactly the same speed, even if all speedos read the same ??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

This is getting surreal.

On the one hand we say we must trust drivers to use their judgement and set a safe an appropriate speed for the conditions.

Yet throw in the requirement to comply with the speed limit and all of a sudden it becomes too difficult for the imbeciles.

Brilliant to dumb at the passing of a signpost!

Update on this area - dpratt may be pleased and I hope he does join in all debates here. Most here are friendly, polite and respectful.

OK - we've been keeping a discreet eye on this and a couple of other places which people have expressed some concerns to us about. So far - we've - cough - used some discretion and given some hopefully helpful COAST lectures to a significant number of "blippers above limit" - and given lecutre and issued fines to some "blats" and nabbed some defective, uninsured and joyriders. Oh - nailed two tailgating twazaks within one half hour on outskirts of one of the villages we were watching.


Road safety and all law enforcement is taken very seriously within this area. Where I think we gain respect is in that we do not seek to deliberately seek to cop drivers breaking a speed lmiit law and we try to educate first and punishment or threat of punishment remains as tool which we will certainly use if circumstance dictates that this is the only way to deal and "teach a harder lesson."

I think we also gain respect here because we also actively and obviously seek to resolve all crimes reported to us. We certainly do send officers to investigate burglaries and so on.. For example - once a burglary or other crime has been reported to us.. we get a liaison officer to call back. If the burglary or theft occurred some time before the crime was reported - we ask if the person wishes an officer to pay a routine visit - and if the person says "yes" - we then try to send an officer to the crime scene within the hour if we can. This does depend to some extent on more pressing emergencies - as it does in the medical profession

But by and large - we really do try to ensure we provide the service the public is entitled to expect from us. We hold a decent record here - not perfect by any measure and no one institution can claim to be so either - and we are always trying to improve things. Honestly.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

How do they manage it now? Drive along a road and you will always adjust your speed to accomodate that of the car ahead. If the car ahead of you is doing 29 mph according to your speedo, you don't try to drive through him by setting yours to read 30 do you?

Jeff - part of the problem is of course the constant harping that it's "30 for a reason".

By constantly telling people they will not get hurt or hurt anyone "so long as they stick rigidly to whatever the lolly says" - a handful - and it only takes a handful of 5% of all in reality - become dangerously oblivious to hazards and will even insist it is their "right" to drive to the lolly speed.

You really have to do this job for a month and you would have a real eye opener.

Most people fit to the trustworthy norm. I always thank the heavens and God for this. However, 5% will fit into the blat or absolutely stupid category .. and inevitably - most of these may not be actually involved in and accident - but the standard of their driving was the catalyst which caused it. As mahali (remember her) found out .. devil's own job to find and convict them . Some of them were not even "illegal" from a speed point of view .. but were illegal from a "due care point of view" . Even if we did prosecute - we have to prove beyond reasonable doubt .. and not always so clear cut either. Paperwork and professional opinion are more on trial than the accused..

But then ... as I do subscribe to the ideals of the Magna Carta - I guess I should not complain - even though I am gutted when someone I know to be guilty as charged is acquitted on a technicality or if some procedure was not followed to the letter of the procedure..

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

you might -i give it room , at least two seconds ---but then i was referring to the groups problems trying to keep to say 30 , when all speedos might read different --- and the ensuing chaos and frustration caused by the differences---

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

You should always be able to say "Only a fooooool breaks the two second roooole

Or Gatsobait's "One Kangorooooo! Two Kanagaroooooooo!"

Or even "one thousa-annnnnnd and one---nnnn Twoooo thouansand anddddd ONE!"


Dash on all cars in line would still point to 30 mph.

Book a track day. with some mates. You can check this out for yourselves

But we are not talking of this .. we are talking really of the need to C O A S T all the time and adjust speed according to the risk assess of potential hazard observed whilst COAST - ing

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

So you are telling me that about 5% of the people you stop actually believe that the '30 for a reason' campaign means that they should or can drive at 30 mph (if thats the limit) regardless?
Are these ordinary, responsible drivers who have been duped? Or are they the 5% who would drive badly/irresponsibly anyway? Because if the latter is the case, then we can't blame the ad can we?



So we should be able to trust them to comprehend the intention behind the campaign and not just drive at 30 (or whatever).

I'm labouring this point because I believe we are compiling a contrived argument here.

If 5% of the driver populace can't be trusted to understand an ad campaign and drive properly then what can we trust them to do? Just let them get on with their 'random' driving? Are these the crap 5% who would not be affected by anything they were told or asked?

If the other 95% can be trusted, where do we get this idea that people would drive everywhere at 30mph just because the ad says so.

The argument just doesn't square.

But thats assuming everyone would try to get their speedo to read 30. I repeat, you don't do that in a queue of cars do you? Does anyone? You keep a safe distance to the vehicle ahead.
If you are frustrated because that means your speedo is reading 29...learn some self-control.
Is there chaos now in a queue of cars when the guy at the front is doing dead on 30? Do we have smashes up the ying-yang when someone drives at 30?



Exactly.

IG - i suspect some sort of confusion has occurred - my point was that no two speedos will show the same speed - oh yes - the two second rule is accurate , but some morons object to seeing someone driving slower than they think is the limit.

In the group situation - i will move back to a lot more than 2 secs ---to give me room to brake for the bloke behind - i drive to the traffic ahead , looking several cars ahead to read the situation ( the UK police safety zone) and also trying to maintain a safe situation whereby if i brake in a hurry - i have a lot of space in front to roll into to let the one behind brake and miss me - but by trying to read the intentions ahead , i find that i can show brake lights in time to get the boot clinger to back off a bit.
Sometimes just changing down with no brake lights gets the result. Its a case of see how car behind reacts.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

You're saying if the interest rate rises a smidge, then everyone will go bankrupt. Obviously that's unreasonable.

We're talking about shifting a subtle balance. If the interest rate rises a smidge then some will go bankrupt.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

No. That's not realistic. But I have caught myself notice the speedo at 50mph (SC NSL) and thought : I should be doing 60 here. It's barking mad and they have even got me doing it (until I catch myself).

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

My self control is to back off - you might drive by numbers - it's a trait of the masses - i drive by safe distances --and the more idiots about - the more distance i give them ----speedo readings - food for those brainwashed by the pratnerships .


old proverb - " better late in this world , than early in next " - thats where speedo reading gets you .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

oooh .. tis indeed startlingly and worryingly so when you do some sums on this They make a doggy and quite frighteningly dangerous manouvre.. which could have caused some conflict with another more vulnerable road user 0r even a ling vehicle.. .. and when stopped argue that "their speed was legal OK!"


Yep .. speed was legal enough .. but the standard of driving warranted a word or more..

Guess that's the really serious argument. You may not kill - but you can still be seriously injured.

Take a story which appeared in the tabloids today. Police Officcer in Scotland was called to an RTA. The officer found the victim was his own wife. She took a bend incorrectly and perhaps too wide and collided with a stationary lorry. Speed was only 18 mph. She died from head injuries - two days after they had celebrated a wedding anniversary.



But she probably thought her speed on the really sharp bend with a lorry slowing to a stop was not OTT at all.






Trouble is Jeff - we just do not know how far this advert influenced some of these or not. Certainly the beliigerent and aggressive "verbals" we get seem to indicate they listened to this advert. Which seems to suggest that this sort of advert does not educate in real terms as the truly thick just do not have the brains to work out what real safety means.

Hence - I think a sanp series of adverts showing how to do each of the C O A S T principles may work. We did manage to get a couple of COAST related ones onto backs of buses here



People are suggestive. You suggest in a court of law that their view of whatever they are testifying they saw has a diffentent slant .. and you see them become indecisive.

But if the truth is known - 95% do not drive at the speed limit at all. They blip over. Usually by a small margin of up 10%+5 and down again.

You note this when you follow and monitor. You use discretion in such circumstances in any case as the in-car doo-dahs will show a fluctuation. You could not convict on that basis .. you do not need Nick Freeman to rip the " evidence" apart in such cases

Interestingly - whilst driving home tonight - that Chris Evans had the AA on his R2 "Drivetime" show. They were discussing the price of fuel .. 96p per litre. and set to rise as barrels reached £70 today and this means diesel will hit over £1/litre in two weeks' time as result

AA woman said that we could save fuel if we slowed from 85mph to 70 mph. (Evans dryly remarked that if we stayed "legal" on motorway - we'd spend less at the forecourts )

But the AA woman is right. On most NSL - average speed is 79/80 mph and within "margin" by 10%+2 rules We find on average - Durham drivers are 34/35 mph and we'd never cope with the paperwork if we prosecuted for this, So we prosecute at a wider margin - and one which we consider to be placing others in some danger.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Botach - you speak for the millions of normal.

Jeff - the normal do not "buy into the advert" The normal apply sense.

But on average - we have a hard core of 5% of complete and uttter idiots. You add to this a known secondary hard core of known illegals and without a routine police presence - we have serious problems emerging. This manifests in slight to fatal incidents.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

[quote="In Gear"]Botach - you speak for the millions of normal.

quote]

IG - Thank you - thought you had me listed as "mad old fool" -- sory , but i'm too fond of my NCB ,and anyway - i pride myself on spotting idiots on te road." -- after about 10 years on single track roads - (and 3 years after passing my test of uncle bashing what i now recoginise as COAST - you have ,and always will have , a COAST ally) -- things like "there's a truck coming round a corner - meet him on the straight - the corner might be narrow - slow down , and meet him where it suites you - car up front brakes - you only have to slow down - ,and more" ----and when i decry the UK system of teaching learners and those newly passed - think back to when blokes had uncles who taught their bits learned in drivink tanks/hgv (before test) and look at todays standards and why i shudder at the teaching standards to day

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

heh, well summarised.

I reckon the problem is one of appropriate setting of the speed limit. Setting of speed limits to well below what would be considered to be a nominal and safe driving speed (an increasingly common occurence) will eventually condition drivers to use the limit as their guide; this is because their own judgement is rarely being exercised. Drivers may unknowingly find themselves relying on their conditioned judgement on occasions where the speed limit is set inappropriately high, the outcome being either one of unnoticed good fortune or notable tragedy.

Now , lets look back at the origonal post ,after all the "EXPERTS" havechewed on it--

"I'm sorry, but I would welcome any form of speed control in my village, which is in rural Durham - even a speed camera (shock, horror). "


Apart from a promise from IG - any other ideas - i haven't seen any .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Does the term 'signal to noise ratio' mean anything to you?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety