Safe Speed Forums

I almost put this in the cycling forum but then decided it needs discussion from both sides.

I used to cycle a lot but haven't in some years as quite frankly being on the road on a bike scares me! I hope that healthy sense of self preservation manifests itself in my attitude to cyclists when I am driving - I always try to give as much room as I can (same as with horses, although for different reasons - who wants a pile of horse poo on their bonnets, or a tonne of horseflesh panicking because you drove a little too close?).

The scenario I have is one that happened to me recently. Dual carriageway, roadworks ongoing until March thus down to one lane each way with cones separating the traffic. Speed limit 40mph during the roadworks. No separate cycle lane (although I think they are building one as part of the roadworks). A cyclist is in the lane, keeping quite far left; he's doing probably 25-30mph peaking at over 30 on a slight downhill.

In normal circumstances I would move out as far as possible to get past maintaining 40mph to reduce the 'danger time' when the car is parallel with the cyclist. The options I could see on this occasion were:

hang back until he turned off or stopped or the roadworks ended
maintain 40mph and get past him quickly, albeit close.
match his/her speed plus a tiny bit to reduce V.Diff but increase overtaking time

As it turned out, I was spared having to choose as the single lane widened out by a couple of feet and he moved left; I hugged close to the cones on the right and passed him.

What would be the best course? What would the cyclists amongst us prefer? I can see problems with all 3 options, are there any more options I missed?

Andy

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

If the two of you were in one lane then:

He shouldn't have been so far over to the left
You shouldn't have overtaken - he was in the same lane as you

so it was option a

good point. I suppose I should have asked myself "what if it was another slow moving vehicle - like a tractor"

The drawbacks of this option are:
1. Annoying drivers behind me. Well as they get annoyed if I deign to actually do 40 rather than exceed the limit, I'm already doing that anyway so no great concern.
2. Worrying the cyclist. This is more concern to me ... when I cycled, having a car stay behind me was a concern as I couldn't easily see it. This guy was obviously a regular cyclist so perhaps would be less likely to overreact, if it had been an occasional peddlar (?sp) they may get flustered?

But all in all - the way you suggest is the safest. There's a thread in the cycling forum as well, started by Ernest, about something similar.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Surely that depends on the width of the lane.

Indeed some cycle campaigners positively advocate the use of "wide kerb lanes" which allow a cyclist to be overtaken safely without crossing the centre line.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

A standard motorway lane width is 12ft.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Last year whilst cycling to work this happened to me.

The dual carriageway that passes under Gatwick Airport terminals was down to one narrow lane, and although I kept as far over as possible heavy vehicles (coaches and trucks) had to wait behind until I could pull through the cones, made me quite nervous.

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Nick

you don't get many cyclists on the motorway though.

this was a dual carriageway, and whilst I have not measured it, it is definitely narrower than a motorway lane. Not to mention the cones, which do constrict the lane to an extent (can't recall if the cones were doubled up, I don't think so).

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

the only people that worry me are the ones who think they can draft a cyclist in their car. As long as you leave a proper gap it's not a problem.

Slightly different scenario but there's some single lane roadwork action going on around here and I just plonk myself in the middle of the lane.
Of course in this case they're only a few hundred metres long. How long were your roadworks?

what do you mean by 'draft'?

These roadworks are several miles long, but will be completed in March (total of about 6 months work). Well, the works are shorter but the single lanes are about 3 miles in total, because of the location of barrier gaps I think.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

The point was really that it's impossible to make a rule. These things call for judgement. All driving and cycling calls for judgement.

Often cones are positioned to give an extra foot or so. Sometimes the lanes are narrowed to allow for greater workspace.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Please do not do that! At least 10mph difference, please - don't want a car alongside you for that long.

I would almost certainly hang back, unless I judged the cyclist very competent and felt that by him pulling to the left he was giving me a signal to pass. If the person behind me was tailgating or otherwise doing something dangerous, I would not pass as I would not be sure that that person had seen the cyclist or would be safe overtaking them.

It's what I presume they're doing when they sit a few inches off my rear wheel.

I look on it as giving them the space i would like - not tailgaiting, passing such that a passenger could open a door and not hit them and getting past as quickly as possible, and above all not frightening the life out of them.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The cyclist, and HIS degree of proficiency is the key.
I take my son to school on my way to work, and every day we see the same kids cycling to school.
Some are competant, a few are more than competant, but an odd one or two are a menace to themselves - including the one who has a euphonium strapped across the back of his bike, who wobbles a lot, and fails to pay attention to hazards in his path!

I would usually try to ensure I did not hold up cars for too long, and if I was sure it was safe, make a "come on by" hand signal, or pull up if a gap presented itself.
Finally, I HAVE seen cyclists venture inside the cones under circumstances where it has been safe to do so.
There is a "cycling on rural roads" topic in the cycling forum, which covers narrow lanes.
If in any doubt, it is better for all if you simply hang back until there is no doubt whether it is safe to pass. If anyone dislikes you waiting behind them, then they will probably pull over to let you past ASAP!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

When I was taught to ride a bike when I was a kid, I was told not to hold up cars, by dismounting. Also to look behind before passing parked vehicles.

Still sounds good to me! Self-preservation first. The bike always comes off worst.

(Awaits heated reply from johnsher!)

will that do you?

This situation is very similar to a driver wanting to overtake a cyclist on a single-track country lane.

As a cyclist, if it really is too narrow to contemplate a safe passing manouevre then I would expect the driver to stay behind until it is wide enough to pass safely at which point I would wave him past to show him/ her that I am aware of the situation.

So in my book, Andy, you did the right thing.

This is where IG and self would annoy... we adopt a primary position and keep a steady cadence of to keep a steady pace. In Andy's example - I would not say the cyclist was seriously holding up traffic at the pace he was riding. and option A is what I would choose in car and prefer on bike ... But I would be looking at all times for a gap or lay-by or widening to allow the overtakes at all times - as like Ern..you try to make sure you do not hold up another road user for too long.

Wildy would chicken out and head for a path - dismount and walk... but then she is more than a little worried in this kind of scene ... and it is understandable given the past.

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There are many urban main roads that are around 24 feet wide, i.e. 12 feet per lane, which is wide enough to physically overtake a cyclist even when there is traffic coming the other way, but doesn't really leave the cyclist sufficient room.

Realistically, you're not going to get 400 yards of clear road in the opposite direction, so people do overtake cyclists under these conditions, hopefully trying to get as far over to the right as possible.

The alternative is slow cyclists holding up long queues, and drivers getting really frustrated.

Unless cyclists are going to dismount every few hundred yards to let motor vehicles past, it is a fact of life they will be overtaken in sub-optimal circumstances. Ideally major urban roads should be at least 30 feet wide, so cyclists can be safely overtaken within the lane.

On a related subject, this is an interesting report on the effect of cycle lanes on motorists' overtaking behaviour:

The Effect of Cycle Lanes on Cyclists' Road Space

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

It's worth bearing in mind that if traffic lanes are not separated, and the oncoming vehicles are behind a cyclist, it is helpful if you pull over to the left as much as is reasonable or safe, to allow the oncoming vehicles a better chance to pass.

Maybe you all do this already?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!