Safe Speed Forums

As we use our rear brake as a H/brake it would be distracting for vehicles in que's

If drivers are not looking in the right direction, it really makes any differance if the bike is lit up like Blackpool, they are still going to run up the rear end.

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Steve

i've always been annoyed with people being too close on the Mway and hence the brake lights keep popping on & off as they make minute uneccesary adjustments to their speed.

in fact i often think it dangerous as it desensitises me to the brake light signal, i might back off the throttle in response to it and then wait and see how hard they're braking.

i like the idea of a brake light triggered by the brake pedal but proportionate to vehicle deccel (in addition to regular brake lights probably). i.e. the led strip in the spoiler lights up progressively from the centre.

I feel the same, when i see people on motorways on and off their brakes i take my foor off the throttle and let the engine slow me down. Often end never even touching the brake! Mind you i usually driving a disel so loads of engine braking.

BMW now have brake lights that light up accoding to how hard you are braking, they use LEDs. THink it goes, normal brake lights, then an extra ring around them then the high level light comes on.

..

really? well thats good.. shame about the car
i wonder if they a proportionate to brake pressure or deccel.

maybe they should flash when the abs kicks in (marginally better than the hazards that some systems put on )

Hey you, I like BMW's!!!

I would imagine it is Brake pressure they use. But don't quote me ont that.

One thing though, all these progressive brake lights and flashing brake lights are only any good if other people know what they mean!!!!!!

How many people are actually aware of this equipment??????

ed_m: Hey, watch those BMW cracks

Paddy27: People do not need to know what they mean. If you are driving along behind such a car and see the brake lights coming on and off normally and then they suddenly get MUCH brighter, or bigger, or start flashing it's going to get your attention quicker. That's the point.

Even if the first time the car in front touched the brakes was actually a panic stop your attention would still be gained quicker by the unusual brake lights.

Every millisecond counts in an emergency.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Pressure sensitive brake lights require very careful design.

One of the ways that brake lights work is that they attract your attention when they flick on. If we had a pressure sensitive system so that the brightness of the brake lights gradually increased with gradually increasing pedal pressure then the attention grabbing 'flick on' effect would be lost, at least sometimes.

I don't suppose anyone would be stupid enough to design a system that did exactly that, but some proposals have characteristics of it. I'm a bit worried about the idea of lighting up the third brake light progressively in response to pedal pressure - suppose that's the only brake light we can see through a couple of other vehicles. If the front guy brakes progressively, there's a much reduced 'flick on' warning.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

thats why i think it needs to be proportionate to deccel, and probably enabled by the brake light switch (and yes, alongside regular brake lights).
assuming deccel is what you need warning of, there are too many variables between brake pressure and deccel for it to be a reliable measure of how urgently it requires your attention.

(BMW aside: I did alot of my driver training in an M5, which was admittedly fun, the only problem being that the wheelbase was slightly longer than the track was wide on the tight corners. but the interior? i-drive..?.. oh and bmw drivers )

must admit , hadn't seen many led lights on bikes , (don't see many mbikes in town anyway) till the other day - looked like a new bike with a double row of very large leds above the no plate. I suspect he had his lights on as they were lit permanantly and came on stronger as he braked. Really stood out , but spoiled the effect /differential with the difference of strength. felt that 4 rows, 2 for rear lights and 2 for brakes or a flashing light for brakes would have been more effective.
Definately a step in right direction to make the biker stand out.

I agree about gradual brightness changes - they would be dangerous unless the change was obvious - and that might be difficult given the wide spectrum of peoples awarness!
On my bicycle, I have a flashing LED rear light, and used to use the fastest rate to give the illusion of always on (to meet UK regs.).
However I found the most effective setting was the longer frequency.
If I was promoting varying lights under braking conditions, I would plump for a bright ring of light, with a centre light which pulsed quicker as more braking effort was exerted. It would certainly distinguish it from the numpties who drive with their foglights on!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

You annoying sod I hate LED lights that do that.

Different people have different levels of retention of vision, and the flickering from current Mercedes LED brake lights (caused by them using cheapo strobes to illuminate one LED at a time) is distracting enough as it is without people using lights actually designed to flash.

Give me filament bulbs any day, much less painful on the eyes.

Except that either the gentle braking level will be dangerously dim compared to non-reactive lights, or the hard braking level so bright as to be dangerous.

I recall once making progress with another vehicle, german registered and obviously used to high speed autobahn travel. Even though there was a safe gap, this chap courteously flashed his brake lights several times before actually applying the brakes whenever approaching potential hazards, giving a very useful warning to following traffic. It is possible to miss the application of brakes if your attention is momentarily elsewhere, which can eat into reaction times. A rapid pulse of the lights as applied makes this much less likely to happen - without unnecessary modulation of the light intensity.

I agree with the German chap you mention, I often flash my lights if I'm planning to brake in a place where people might not expect it.

The usual place for this is on an urban dual carriageway that has those tiny gaps for turning right into very minor roads as opposed to a useful deceleration/waiting area. Edge Lane in Liverpool is a good example when making a U-turn for the Total garage or a right turn at the same point.

Combined with a right signal, about half of the time, drivers realise what I'm up to and change to the left hand lane, the rest of the time they still nearly plough into my rear end and give abuse because I am turning right there and not at the crossroads further up and now they can't get past in the other lane.

I've got a Citroen Xsara that when you stand on the brakes (emergency stop) it activates the hazard lights (Manufacturers standard fit).

Any Views ??

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I did go on to say:

The fast setting is becauser the law still says "ALWAYS ON" but is less noticeable. When cycling you do whatever it takes to get non-observant drivers to see you - your life depends on it.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Sounds good to me - I cannot think of a situation where it could be dangerous, even though it might sometimes be unnecessary.
Not all cars have a hazards switch which is easily reached in an emergency - encountering an accident on the motorway for instance.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hmm, so when you come around a shallow motorway bend at 120, see a cop and anchor up, the car will draw attention to you?

Seriously, however, I have a massive aversion to this sort of automation in a general sense. I'd like to judge for myself when to give a signal to other road users.

On the other hand I can't really see any harm in this one, and could well imagine that it would be possible to wish for an extra hand for the hazard light switch when it's all gone wrong and you're seriously busy trying to put it right.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

As far as I know its illegal to have you hazard lights on if you are not stationary!

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Speed camera policy Kills

Things have changed... See:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#96

However, it remains illegal to use hazard warning lights when moving except on a motorway or dual cariageway. Somehow, I don't think that's going to stop me using mine when I spot an obstruction ahead on a single carriageway road (and I suspect traffic behind does not know about the problem).

Edited (by Claire 26.4.11) :
Link now at : here

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety