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 Post subject: A very cheap shot...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:00 
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ACCIDENTS DOCTOR BACKS THE USE OF MOBILE SPEED CAMERAS IN NORTH

JANE CANDLISH

09:00 - 24 February 2006

An Inverness doctor claims the use of mobile speed cameras can reduce the number of people killed or seriously injured on Highland roads.

Dr Gary Kerr, a consultant at Raigmore Hospital said he supports the Northern Safety Camera Partnership (NSCP) because he sees and deals with the carnage that excessive speed causes.

Highland Council's resources committee last week agreed to support the authority's continued contribution to the work of the NSCP.

Dr Kerr, who has worked at Raigmore's Accident and Emergency Unit for over five years, said: "The greater the speed the more serious the injury. If you have an accident at a moderate speed you may end up with injuries which allow you to walk away.

"If you have a similar accident at high speed you can end up with injuries which could kill you."

He added: "I certainly support the work of the Northern Safety Camera Partnership and their presence at high accident areas.

"I do feel there seems to be a tolerance of speed. Generally the public now understands that drink driving is unacceptable but in terms of road safety there seems to be a bit of bravado about speed - especially driving fast down the A9 and our other roads.

"But it's appalling when you see, as I do, the carnage that it brings. When you're driving fast you are not giving yourself time to react to changing situations on the roads and you're not giving other drivers time to react to your own manoeuvres." In 2004 there were 32 people killed and 237 adults and children seriously injured on Northern Constabulary roads.

In his report to the resources committee, Neil Gillies, head of Highland Council's Roads and Community Works, revealed that already the cameras had brought about a reduction in speed and that there had only been three minor accidents on the 29 dangerous stretches currently under surveillance.

This weekend cameras will be operating at the following locations: A95 Congash Farm by Grantown; A95 Drumuillie by Boat of Garten; A9 Altnasleanach by Inverness; A9 two miles north of Dalwhinnie junction; Cuaich by Dalwhinnie and near lay-by 177 Daviot.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:34 
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Yes very cheap shot, I wonder how much he was paid for making those comments? I’d like to know how fast Dr Kerr drives on the roads.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:37 
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".......excessive speed ......." :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:42 
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Whad exactly did he say



"When you're driving fast you are not giving yourself time to react to changing situations on the roads" --as another comment -"excessive speed", slightly diferent from speeding.

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 Post subject: Re: A very cheap shot...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 17:19 
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Dr Gary Kerr wrote:
The greater the speed the more serious the injury. If you have an accident at a moderate speed you may end up with injuries which allow you to walk away.

Well that’s just typical of today’s doctors: they prefer to treat the symptoms rather than find the cure :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:02 
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I have friends who are doctors and they seem to feel the same way.

Whilst I appreciate what they see and work with, they absolutely do not appreciate the reasons why people are trolleyed into their A&E depts in the first place.

It's mathematically trivial to state that the higher the speed at impact, the greater the injury. In short - that's bloody obvious.

What's not obvious is that driving in excess of the speed limit is not even close to being the main cause of the impact in the first place.

Driving just within the speed limit but in attrocious conditions is far more likely to result in an impact. Speed cameras will not prevent this.

They will not prevent any impacts. They will photograph cars travelling in excess of the speed limit shortly before impact.

As has been stated this foolish Doctor knows anatomy but not the causes of road accidents.

I'm not advocating the sue of excessive speed, but announcing that speed cameras save lives is barking in the wrong forest - never mind the wrong tree.

It is completely failing to appreciate the cause of almost all accidents - an error of judgement.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 21:24 
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jamie_duff wrote:
I have friends who are doctors and they seem to feel the same way.

Whilst I appreciate what they see and work with, they absolutely do not appreciate the reasons why people are trolleyed into their A&E depts in the first place.

It's mathematically trivial to state that the higher the speed at impact, the greater the injury. In short - that's bloody obvious.

What's not obvious is that driving in excess of the speed limit is not even close to being the main cause of the impact in the first place.

Driving just within the speed limit but in attrocious conditions is far more likely to result in an impact. Speed cameras will not prevent this.

They will not prevent any impacts. They will photograph cars travelling in excess of the speed limit shortly before impact.

As has been stated this foolish Doctor knows anatomy but not the causes of road accidents.

I'm not advocating the sue of excessive speed, but announcing that speed cameras save lives is barking in the wrong forest - never mind the wrong tree.

It is completely failing to appreciate the cause of almost all accidents - an error of judgement.


I agree with you Jamie.

I think it is unprofessional for a doctor to try to influence opinion outside of his/her area of expertise.

Road safety is a complex issue. Speed limits and a safe speed are not the same thing.

SCPs address only speed limits, not inappropriate speed. For a doctor to exert professional opinion, using a professional title, on an area outisde his/her expertise is absolutely unprofessional and totally unacceptable.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 23:24 
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It's a wonder he doesn't publish his thoughts in the Lancet and get them peer reviewed. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 14:27 
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T2006 wrote:
Quote:
I think it is unprofessional for a doctor to try to influence opinion outside of his/her area of expertise.


He's just jumping on the moral bandwagon, listen to the caring sharing Doctor.

Imagine the outrage if a scam operator told them that they are pushing the trolleys along the corridors too fast, and that it might cause injury or stress to the patient?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 15:13 
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T2006 wrote:
jamie_duff wrote:
I think it is unprofessional for a doctor to try to influence opinion outside of his/her area of expertise.


So - who should be able to comment?... :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 15:49 
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B cyclist wrote:
T2006 wrote:
jamie_duff wrote:
I think it is unprofessional for a doctor to try to influence opinion outside of his/her area of expertise.


So - who should be able to comment?... :wink:

We are all entitled to comment, of course.
It is the perceived improper use of his status as a doctor to put more weight behind his arguments in an area where his specialist skills are not relevant.

I would attach far more significance to a road safety point being made by Paul Smith than by any highly qualified medical doctor.
However I think that your average "man in the street" would be more likely to believe a doctor, unless he/she was aware of how much relevant specialist knowledge Paul Smith had. A medical doctor probably does not specialise in road safety issues.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 21:26 
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Supertramp has answered for me, but just to restate the point....

There are a number of "jobs" in this society which carry with them a large degree of ready made respect.

To name a few examples:

Doctors
Teachers
Politicians
Lawyers
Police Officers
Military Officers
in other countries but not the UK for some reason - Engineers

In short - the "Professionals" of society. More so than your average manual labourer or semi-skilled worker, when these people talk, others listen. Because they are perceived to be trustworthy, intelligent, respectable etc.

I'm not being derogatory towards the rest of society nor indeed doubting the virtues of professionals.

What I am saying however, is that each professional knows a lot about his/her own profession. The public still percieve the professional to be talking gospel regardless of the subject though.

Lawyers can influence the public views of the military. Military Officers can sway opinion of Politics. Doctors can slant opinions on road safety. The fact that each profession knows the square root of bugger all about the other subjects doesn't enter the publics' head.

"He's a Doctor - he MUST be right".

It is extremely easy for such a professional to pass his/her private opinion (which is no more or less informed than any other human being's opinion, regardless of social status) to the public with the automatic credibility that comes with the title attached to his/her name.

It is extremely easy to seriously abuse one's social status in such situations so one must think very hard before opening mouths and talking rubbish.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 00:10 
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jamie_duff wrote:
There are a number of "jobs" in this society which carry with them a large degree of ready made respect.

To name a few examples:

in other countries but not the UK for some reason - Engineers

Well the reason for that is obvious. :x

Who do you call you fix your washing machine? An engineer.
Who fixes your car? An engineer.
Who fixes your central heating? An engineer.

The term is abused to the point of being worthless. In other countries you only get to call yourself an engineer if you actually are one. That's why they have status elsewhere but not here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 22:58 
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most car fixers are now called fitters/technicians( probably so they can be paid less) and would any self respecting plumber accept the title of "Enginer" --his employers call him sir :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 08:26 
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Not so much plumbers etc, but I know plenty people in admin jobs who gladly accept such terms as "Cost Engineer".

Not a Chartership or even a BTech in sight....... :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 17:24 
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jamie_duff wrote:
There are a number of "jobs" in this society which carry with them a large degree of ready made respect.

To name a few examples:

Doctors
Teachers
Politicians
Lawyers
Police Officers
Military Officers
in other countries but not the UK for some reason - Engineers

In short - the "Professionals" of society. More so than your average manual labourer or semi-skilled worker, when these people talk, others listen. Because they are perceived to be trustworthy, intelligent, respectable etc.

I'm not being derogatory towards the rest of society nor indeed doubting the virtues of professionals.

What I am saying however, is that each professional knows a lot about his/her own profession.


totally agree. i am a professional but no sod listens to me outside my own industry why? general public and governing bodies see me as 'just a trucker' so i have no recognisable opinion even though i can easily tot up 50,000 miles a year of experience and observation on tarmac :x

slightly off topic but insurance companies are the same. i am 28, 6 years no claims and i want an EVO 6. a lot of insurance companies dont want to know because they want someone mid thirties and over 'more experienced' drivers. they soon shut up when i point out that holding a licence is not gaining experience. 50,000 miles at work + 4.500 miles privately is more than some people clock up in a decade :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 18:56 
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The main thing is that these committee's never call "normal" people to them to give evidence. You'll never get Joe Public or Scanny or jamie_duff allowed to add their "view" to the pot.

And thats all this doctor should be seen as imparting - his view. In his professional opinion!! Nonsence - if that were the case he'd realise the A9 and its sister highland roads are the main cause of death and injury in the highlands - but again he's not qualified to make that anything other than a "view" of his.

The biggest issue is these committee's of well to do locals who waste their time trying to get backing to their own simple views by less than professional views of others.

If this person is being called to the committee - then I Paul from SafeSpeed or someone else similar should be called also. Unless these committee's do this - then they are no more than biased and at best "well meaning" moaners.

Lets see the facts from the Doctors (dont see any he presented in this case) - and leave their views to the pub afterwards like the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 22:13 
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Its not unlike the whole BRAKE thing.....losing a relative doesn't make you an expert in root cause analysis or road safety.

I'm a chartered civil engineer and now a business improvement manager so have a certain area of expertise that covers such things as RCA. But I would never use my qualifications or professional status to endorse things outside the boundaries of my profession.

Jamie is spot on the SCP has used this Doctor's status for their own ends. I wonder what the BMA thinks about this?

Holding professional status gives you standing in the community and gives gravity to your words. I would suggest that the next time the good doctor deigns to give his opinion on matters beyond medicine that he does so in a personal capacity.

Personally I regard his comments and the nature of their airing to be wholey unprofessional.


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 Post subject: Re: A very cheap shot...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 15:55 
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I think anyone who has an opinion should be alowed to publish it, right or wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: A very cheap shot...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 00:22 
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Herbie J wrote:
I think anyone who has an opinion should be alowed to publish it, right or wrong.

I believe they should be entitled to their opinion and be allowed to state it. However publish... difficult. Supposing I believed that a certain crime was legal, and published that it was.. and someone sa the publication and went on to commit an offence as a result... Publication needs some care.


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