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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:32 
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I know many of you would have already seen this picture over at pepipoo, but as I have done nothing 'official' with it, I have decided I want to share it with the world and his speeding car....


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I thought the police WERE the law, not ABOVE it!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:40 
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The argument for the police here is that the car may have arrived there with its emergency lights on, or in some kind of extenuating circumstances.

However, if this were the case, the emergency lights should have been left on.

Furthermore, this sets a bad precedence to other motorists who this if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

This is a fine example of appalling driving exacerbated by bad training and failure to execute stringent enough checks on those with one of the highest levels of responsibility in the country!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:11 
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On a similar theme, I was driving into London at the weekend along the M4, and doing a steady 60 on the speedo (58 according to GPS and the trip computer) through the 60+bus lane section. Both the left and middle (where I am) lanes were busy but free-flowing, and there was a taxi a few car lengths behind me in the bus lane to the right. In my rear view mirror I noticed a Met BMW (one of the fully marked silver ones) closing at a rate which seemed to suggest they were using more than just the 2MPH difference between my speed and the limit. It continued to close on the back of my car until it had passed the taxi to the right, and then pulled into the bus lane to overtake me and all the cars ahead of me until I lost sight of it.

At no point did it use blue lights or siren.

If it had obviously been on its way to an emergency, I'd not have thought any more about it, but the relatively slow speed and lack of lights/siren gave the impression that the driver was just unwilling to stick to the 2-lane 60MPH limits enforced on the rest of us and was treating that stretch of the M4 as if the bus lane and sub-NSL limit didn't exist. Clearly I don't know the reason for this police driver acting as they did, but I do know that my opinion of police driving standards has just gone down again, and that can't be good.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 15:15 
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By the rules, there are a limited number of circumstances under which a police driver can drive "beyond the law", shall we say, without using emergency lights an/or siren. These include things like silent approach on a traffic offender or a potential crime scene etc.

To the best of my knowledge, dashing back to the station for a cuppa does not fall within those limited circumstances, although I'm sure it happens. I've seen police officers (especially in panda cars) use their siren/blues-and-twos to get across traffic light junctions and get passed queues of traffic quite a few time now. You can tell when they switch their lights and siren off just after the obstacle. But I have learned there is little you can do about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 15:18 
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I think someone over at Pepipoo mentioned that to get out of there he's either going to have to drive the rest of the way down a one way street or do a three pointer where he is. To add to that, it looks like the road bends round to the left, meaning that whatever PC Bonzo does anyone coming the other way won't be able to see what the clown's doing until they round the bend. How bright! :roll: An emergency might excuse it (theft from donut shop?), but yes, the blues should have been left on surely.
Pug, I know you've heard this a lot from the Pepipoo mob, but I really think you should do more with this picture. If you think it's a waste of time taking it to the plod, then take it to the papers. Look at the fun they had with the illegally parked talivan. I know this isn't quite the same but it's an example of the "one rule for us, another for you" attitude shown by some police now, so you'd think the papers could do something with it. Best of all, they'll nag the police force to find out if there really was a genuine emergency for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 16:09 
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I think most would condone a tiered approach to this.

Give the police an opportunity to do something about it first. Provide them with a copy of the photograph and details of what you saw. When you write to them, request a reaction from them and full details of an actions which result from the information. Make sure you send the letter to your local police authority. For good measure you could CC the letter to the Chief Superintendent. You never know, you may receive a positive response which includes information of any disciplinary action taken. If the response from the police authority is not satisfactory, let them know and give them a chance to respond to that.

If, once you have gone through these stages, you're still not happy, contact a local and/or national newspaper. You will then be able to provide the photos and the police authorities responses.

Remember, it is imperative that you ask the police authority for a satisfactory response detailing any action resulting from the information you will give them. Don't let them get away with "We will be investigating the matter fully and take appropriate action".

This may not be what you're looking for, but it's a step towards ensuring individuals working for your police authority take responsibility for their actions. Especially when they are endangering people’s safety.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 21:02 
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The picture was taken on a digital camera phone so I can prove the image has NOT been tampered with, but the same camera date and time stamps the images and the 14 day rule has now lapsed.
Im slightly reluctant to contact the police as I am currently in the process of being prosecuted for speeding and this may just look like sour grapes.
I did report a police car for speeding on a motorway and all I got was that in some circumstances it is safer for them to travel 'discretely' rather than with the blues and twos on. I then got a lecture about speeding which suggests that he knew I was being 'done'.
I do have a nice clar pic of the reg plate of the car and if enough people are interested I will share it with you all...
As for the press, its an interseting thought, but cant see it getting much beyond the local level.
Somebody sticking this pic. on the front page of a website would be far more widely seen around the world, not just Hampshire!. Any volunteers?
I am happy for anybody to copy this image so long as it is NOT altered in any way.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 00:06 
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DevilsAdvocate wrote:
By the rules, there are a limited number of circumstances under which a police driver can drive "beyond the law", shall we say, without using emergency lights an/or siren. These include things like silent approach on a traffic offender or a potential crime scene etc.

To the best of my knowledge, dashing back to the station for a cuppa does not fall within those limited circumstances, although I'm sure it happens. I've seen police officers (especially in panda cars) use their siren/blues-and-twos to get across traffic light junctions and get passed queues of traffic quite a few time now. You can tell when they switch their lights and siren off just after the obstacle. But I have learned there is little you can do about it.


True! We are not allowed to speed/ drive throug red lights - etc unless on a shout! And there is documentation and some doo-dahs in the car which prove what we are up to! :wink:

Yummy doughnuts and mug of tea are not deemed emergency enough - unfortunately! :lol:

Pictures may not give true story - would want to know why lights were not flashing if one or ours - but there may have been reason which is not apparently obvious (and of course - would say that :wink: )

Same goes for the unmarked car on M4.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:33 
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In Gear wrote:
Same goes for the unmarked car on M4.


Nope, the BMW in question was definitely one of the Met's marked cars - roof mounted lights, hi-viz markings all-round... no chance of mistaking it for anything other than a police car.

Chris


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:36 
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I didnt see the car arrive at the location, but it would have been just as easy and certainly safer to have arrived at the location they wanted by using the one way street correctly. I watched the 2 officers return from round the corner that is pictured.
As for them leaving, they reversed out. The camera position is on a turn so they done a reverse round the corner manouveur and left.
Is reversing down a one way street illegal too?
He definately didnt have lights on for that one so if that is true then they have broken the law.

As ive said a few time now, the police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!


Last edited by Pug205GRD on Wed Jul 28, 2004 18:53, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 14:17 
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Pug205GRD wrote:
Is reversing down a one way street illegal too?
At least the car was going in the right direction that time. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 15:36 
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How about this one:

A month or so ago, whilst riding home from work in central London, I was travelling down The Embankment approaching the Blackfriars underpass.

It was the day of the Fathers for Justice demonstration, and there had been dozens of Police everywhere.

As I was rding along at a stately 30mph, at least 15 marked Police bikes came past me in a pack riding at what I would guess was in excess of 50mph, maybe more. None were showing blue lights, and they were clearly NOT on the way to any incident, they were simply riding back to the traffic garage wanting to get off duty as soon as possible.

The interesting thing was that they all hammered on their brakes just before the speed camera at the exit of the tunnel, and then accellerated away at high speed again straight afterwards. To me this clearly shows that they had no cause whatsoever to be travelling at that kind of speed.

This is definitely a case of one law for them and another for the rest of us.

Regards

Russ


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 15:44 
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The same laws apply to the police. If they had not been travelling to an emergecy and they had been snapped by the camera, they would have been dealt with by the law. They would probably have either lost their jobs or be on parking duty for the rest of their career.

Iin actual fact, they have a lot more to lose than most if caught speeding - apparently the police take a dim view of their own traffic cops getting points.

Does this also, therefore, demonstrte the mentality of traffic police who are willing to stake their licence and their pension to get back to base for clocking off???


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 16:06 
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The police riders in question probably held the same view as many on here including myself:

If it is not dangerous, and not inconsiderate, then what is the "offence"?

Unfortunately for the police, when they are seen acting in this reasonable manner, we see it as hypocrisy. When an ordinary member of the public does it, we are simply selecting a safe speed for the conditions.

And besides, they were only acting on the official advice "Slow down for the cameras". :?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:33 
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Seeing as I have seen a few people witnessing inappropriate police driving is anybody prepared to set up a website documenting this? I would, but admit to not being any good at it and having no webspace to host it from
On another note, I have 2 more images of 'inappropriate' parking by police officers in the last 72 hours.
Anybody want to see them. In neither case were the blues and twos on, indeed I was one of the cars arive on scene.
If enough people sent in their anecdotal or photo/video evidence then surely they are going to get fed up with the motorist fighting back!
Just a thought....

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 13:34 
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I know someone who would be happy to set up a website.

This may take some time and will initially require manual updates.

If you have any examples of bad police driving, send them (preferably with photos) to:

whocantdrive@yahoo.com

PS: I got a cracking picture of a police van breaking at least 3 parking laws just last night. I have already emailed it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 17:11 
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Feel free to lift the one at the start of this thread. I will email the other 2 I have as soon as I have copied them off of my phone.
A website like that could be highly entertaining....

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!


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