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 Post subject: 60MPH Limit on M1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 15:40 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25619914

The latest daft "green" scheme. Most pollution is from trucks. What speed will they be limited to?

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 Post subject: Re: 60MPH Limit on M1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 21:38 
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Why don't the Highways Agency understand that they are the "highways" agency, not the "Clean Air Agency" or the "Suck Up To Europe Agency"????

Do your bloody job, and keep the, er, highways, flowing :x

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 Post subject: Re: 60MPH Limit on M1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 21:53 
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Way back up north in the 60's we had a way of describing the county road men -"they go over the road, along the road ,yet never touch the road" . Sounds like todays HA .More concerned with air quality than road quality. And if air quality is so important, it might be time to check up on some of the ancient buses on our roads.

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 Post subject: Re: 60MPH Limit on M1
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 00:12 
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I heard this on the radio this evening. It's not clear which pollutants they're trying to reduce though? Oxides of nitrogen tend to get WORSE at light throttle openings, so I'm not sure it'll help there. Perhaps the biggest improvement in local air quality will be as a result of many drivers simply switching to the A1 instead (or is that too cynical)?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 07:51 
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Motorists face 60mph speed limit on motorways
By Steven Swinford, Senior Political Correspondent 10:00PM GMT 06 Jan 2014

Motorists face 60mph speed limit on some roads because of EU rules to limit air pollution
80mph speed limit plan for motorways

Britain's speed limits are lower than many other countries in Europe Photo: ALAMY
The motorway speed limit in some areas will be cut to 60mph under government plans to limit air pollution near homes and schools.

The Highways Agency on Monday announced that it is planning to reduce the limit on a 32-mile stretch of the M1, amid fears that pollution levels are damaging the health of nearby residents. The proposals are part of an attempt to meet European Union targets for clean air.

Officials will consider whether to expand the speed restriction across the country, with part of the M3 in Surrey and 13 other stretches of motorway singled out for the measure from 2015.
Motoring organisations criticised the plans and accused the Government of “penalising” drivers and reducing the national speed limit “by the back door”.
Britain has some of the lowest national limits in Europe, behind 24 other countries including Germany, where there is no speed limit on autobahns, France, Italy, Spain and Ireland.
The plans emerged after the Coalition abandoned proposals to raise the limit to 80mph, amid concerns it would alienate women voters and risk safety.
In 2011, Philip Hammond, the then transport secretary, promoted the plans. He cited work by Transport Research Laboratory suggesting that raising the speed limit would deliver “hundreds of millions” of pounds in economic benefits due to shorter journey times.
The research also found it would lead to 18 additional deaths a year. The proposals were dropped last June by Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary.

Robert Goodwill, the roads minister, insisted that the 60mph limits were “temporary”.
“Any speed restrictions to improve air quality would only ever [be] considered as part of road improvement work and would not be appropriate for the vast majority of projects started this Parliament,” he said.
“We are funding significant improvements to the road network. We need to ensure that as we invest we are alive to instances where there could be a negative effect on air quality.

Edmund King, the AA’s president, said reduced speed limits on the M1 were the “tip of the iceberg”. He added: “Our concern is how far this will spread, and whether the Government is effectively reducing speed limits by the back door.
“Having to go to 60mph will be incredibly hard to enforce and a lot of drivers will think it is unjust.
“It is not just the emissions from cars that are causing the problems, it is the emissions from trucks, but it is the cars which will now have to slow down. Motorists are being penalised.”

In a consultation launched on Monday, the Highways Agency announced plans for a 60mph speed limit between junction 28 of the M1, near Matlock, Derbyshire, and Junction 35A, near Rotherham, South Yorkshire.
The road is one of a new generation of “smart” motorways, where the hard shoulder is permanently opened to traffic to help ease congestion. Officials are concerned the additional traffic will have an “adverse impact on air quality” near nine areas close to houses and schools.
The agency has been forced to act after it emerged that the Government’s forecasts significantly underestimated the pollution levels on some roads.
Under EU guidelines, the Government could be fined hundreds of millions of pounds if the levels of nitrogen dioxide emitted by exhausts are breached.

The agency is proposing to reduce emissions by introducing a 60mph speed limit between 7am and 7pm, seven days a week, from 2015.
The consultation states that the limit is likely to be in place for “several years” until cleaner vehicles are developed.
Officials believe that a 60mph speed limit will cut emissions by reducing the amount of stopping and starting on congested stretches of motorway.
Janet Wilkinson, a major projects manager at the Highways Agency, said: “We will only be reducing the speed limits where it is absolutely necessary, it really is a last resort.
“We take air pollution very seriously, it is linked to illnesses like bronchitis and asthma. If we make pollution levels worse, we would be open to challenge. We could face big fines.”
Motoring groups warned that the lower speed limits could become increasingly common.

Officials are assessing whether to lower the speed limit on the M3 between junction 2 and 4a in Surrey, where there are high emission levels. From 2015 the agency will assess pollution levels for 13 similar schemes, including stretches of the M1, M3, M5, M6, M20, M23, M27 and M62.
Stephen Joseph, of the Campaign for Better Transport, welcomed the move and added that “around urban areas, people will have to get used to a lower speed limit on motorways”.
He said that while European regulations could be blamed for the planned changes, the “problem of air pollution from traffic and health won’t magically disappear if we leave the EU”.


and from
60mph speed limit proposal for stretch of M1 motorway
Comments (1118)
By Justin Parkinson Political reporter, BBC News

The government is proposing to set up a 60mph speed limit for a 32-mile stretch of the M1, in a bid to cut pollution.
The Highways Agency says the new restriction would apply from 7am to 7pm, seven days a week.
It would be in place from junction 28, near Matlock, Derbyshire, to junction 35a, north of Rotherham.
Variable speed limits are widely used to aid traffic flow, but the RAC said this could be the first time they had been implemented to cut air pollution.
It warned that reducing the maximum speed from the national standard 70mph to 60mph could "pave the way for similar restrictions on other sections of motorway" and there would "inevitably be a negative impact on business efficiency and individual mobility".

'Cleaner vehicles'
The Highways Agency said the lower limit, which has been put out to consultation, was likely to remain for "several years".
In its document, it stated that the current use of the 70mph speed limit for motorways was having "adverse impacts on air quality" and that cutting it would reduce emissions.
It also said the change would bring "reduced congestion, increased capacity and improved journey time reliability for users of the motorway".
The normal speed limit would still apply to the rest of the M1, which runs from north London to Leeds.

Tougher European Union guidelines on air quality have come into force and the agency argued that a lower limit would be needed to ensure these were met on the section from junctions 28 and 35a, which goes past Mansfield, Chesterfield and Sheffield.
It said: "For the purposes of this consultation, it should be assumed that the speed limit will need to be in place for several years. However, we are not able to give an indication in this document of how many years the speed limit will need to be retained."
But the document said: "It is expected that vehicle emissions will reduce as more new, cleaner vehicles come into use and older, more polluting vehicles become obsolete."

The agency said it could change its plans, by limiting the operation of the lower speed limits to peak hours, or Mondays to Fridays.
The length of the stretch of road affected could be shortened too, it added.

RAC technical director David Bizley said: "This is a landmark proposal as to the best of our knowledge motorway speed limits have not previously been lowered in order to comply with environmental legislation."
He added that it "would certainly negate some of the current benefits of operating this section as a 'smart' motorway where motorists are allowed to use the hard shoulder to reduce congestion".
Mr Bizley also said: "More worryingly, it could pave the way for similar restrictions on other sections of motorway. While preserving air quality is obviously a paramount concern there will inevitably be a negative impact on business efficiency and individual mobility.
"This very powerfully demonstrates the impact that speed has on emissions and many will be surprised to hear that a reduction of just 10mph can have such a significant effect on improving air quality."

The consultation will close on 3 March.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 08:06 
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Road Safety must always be key to setting speed limits. The DfT know this. The 85th%ile is no joke it is sound science, truth and fact.
We have already seen the nightmare the automated speed camera has caused on our roads.

Where is there proof that this would resolve any pollution issue ? Where is the proof that there even is a pollution issue?

What about the congested streets where all the stop and start actually happens? Ah but they find those too hard to enforce?
So lets reduce the speed of a motorway and then enforce it harshly and watch nearly every driver add their name to a profiteering 'propaganda course' or lose their licence? Is that what they want all the drivers off the road or attending a 'propaganda course' ?

The top of the M3 is rarely stop start so how is this mean to help anything? The M1 has always had a varied spat of slow and smooth flow sections.

Should we not ask that surely travelling smoothly and efficiently making a 'quick' pass by a location with an engine 'sweet-spotting' has to be far better than the inevitable slower stop start that this will cause.
You only have to look at the mess the M25 has got into with stop start more frequent than flowing traffic.
A system run by a computer fails often in recognising developing hazards and will often show '40' with all the traffic stopped.

This is an excuse to be seen to be 'doing something' rubbish, than (sadly and tragically) doing the right thing. Saving face than saving lives. :(

It will of course cause more frustration and inattention the two prime causes of accidents - so are we to believe that this is now NOT the aim of the rules of the road anymore, but bowing to other powers, to be at their beck and call because we are worried about being sued for failing to meet an impossible and ridiculous 'target'?

Citizens are highly likely to be KSI from the additional accidents and yet in the name pf pollution they are to be what - sacrificed ? Humm that doesn't really add up right does it ?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 08:40 
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The online consultation is here, so make sure you have your say:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/m1-junctions-28-to-35a-maximum-mandatory-speed-limit

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:52 
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Ta - I think I'll submit a response. Having glanced through the consultation document, I'm not convinced that the air quality will improve significantly by running at 60. As Malcolm says, it will only affect cars and light goods vehicles. At least the proposal is to only impose this speed limit between 07.00 and 19.00, but to be honest, given tat they already have gantry cameras and variable speed limits along much of it, why do we even need this restriction? Why can't they just use the variable limits when the air quality is low? That is, after all, what it's there for...isn't it?!

I'm also not convinced that NOx emissions will fall. They tend to get worse as the engine is more lightly loaded.

To me, this seems an utterly pointless and blunt way of doing it. I also think they should allow Euro 6 cars to run at the 70 limit. After all, if the enforcement is automated, the system will know whether the car meets the later emissions standard or not. That would be a good way of incentivising the uptake of greener vehicles. I know plenty will say that it will be too confusing for people, but I think that's cobblers. It's nothing LIKE as confusing as the current system for determining the speed limit of a "car-derived van" or a "van-derived car" on SC A roads!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 17:15 
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I'd like to see any report you have Mole on air quality rates/ratios etc. please.

Perhaps it's a pure 'exercise' to show an attempt to satisfy EU but with consultancy they can then say they are not going to do it.

But we must 'badger' our corner of Proper and Intelligent Road Safety and make sure that our voice is heard.

I wonder if placing a larger document in and then agreed and signed off by many people might show a much more united front and perhaps one that would be better listened to ?

I see we have until 3rd March before this closes so a little time to prep all the docs, facts and figures.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 23:26 
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I've completed a survey, i most negative terms. I'd suggest others do so ,but as individuals. Perhaps Admin might look at the survey and suggest the best responses to the survey.

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 20:55 
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Chart 13 is interesting:

http://www.lewes.gov.uk/Files/env_airquality_nitrogenDioxide5.pdf

Have a play with:


http://www.londonair.org.uk/LondonAir/Guide/WhatIsNO2.aspx

To put not too fine a point on it, trucks and vans are a large minority of the vehicles on motorways during daytime. Especially on urban motorways, where urban passenger transport vehicles [buses] also come into play.
Chart 13 again..

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