Safe Speed Forums

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/plan-to-allow-hgvs-to-increase-speed-to-50mph-on-a9-1-3221933


I suppose in a way this was forced on them by the introduction of the SPECS cameras otherwise the whole road would have been unacceptably slowed down. Apparently the average speed of an HGV on single-carriageway sections between Perth and Inverness is currently 51 mph.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Victory for common sense. But, I watched an episode of Stobart today and one thing stood out- tractors with loads on the A9 travelling at low speeds. Cameras of every variety will not stop the frustration this causes, only proper police will do any good.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, that strikes me as a sensible thing to try. I'd rather they'd have let them run at their governed 56, than 50 though. I think the closer you can get traffic speeds for all vehicles to being the same, the less overtaking we're likely to see. I suppose the only downside is that overtaking something doing 40 is probably safer, in most circumstances, than overtaking something doing 50?

Realistically, the people likely to do dodgy overtakes (leaving the car in 5th gear while trundling past at a closing speed of 4MPH), are unlikely to overtake anything going at 50MPH (and probably not much going at 40MPH) whilst the seasoned overtakers are more likely to judge a safe overtake and are accustomed to overtaking the average 50MPH, "it's got to be safer at 50MPH, cos it says so on the news", type. A lorry doing 50MPH would be more dangerous (very slightly) than a car doing 50MPH but I should imagine most seasoned overtakers appreciate this anyway and factor it into their decision to overtake or not.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

?
I have yet to notice a truck doing 40 on a single carriageway, given the opportunity to go faster.
In fact, many do the the maximum 90KPH (56 mph+).
So the effects of this ¨trial¨ will be of no value GIVEN that the majority of trucks have never done 40 there anyway.

And for those advocating the abolition of the 90KPH limit....never going to happen.
EU mandated. Germany has lane restriction and lower limits.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Yes, that's true; but if the HGVs are travelling at 50 mph, I expect relatively few drivers will bother about trying to overtake them. It seems to me we have become even more processional in recent times, largely for fuel economy reasons, I suspect.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Round here the SC roads are long and pretty twisty, with few overtaking opportunities. I agree that for a truck doing 50, fewer people will overtake, but I think the big fatalities are the lunatic overtakers who simply "run out of road" before something comes round the next bend and they're part way past the truck. Another thing I'm wondering, is whether the higher speed of 50 and the (almost certain) higher number of cars not bothering to overtake, will lead to longer queues, so the loonies will try to overtake even more vehicles in one go? It's annoying when people who (themselves) have no intention of overtaking a vehicle ahead, don't leave enough of a gap for someone who DOES want t overtake to "leaprog" into.

That is perhaps the biggest problem. I have only ever driven limited sections of the A9, I'm more of an A82 fan, but past few years I've ventured north, I've noticed this more and more . Last time ,on the return ,we travelled the first ten miles at approx 25 MPH.Knowing the road and where to look to spot oncoming, I'd passed a few in the zombie queue before the lead vehicle decided to pull over. But I've noticed a distinct lack of overtaking skills and obvious overtaking blocking on single carriage way roads. I've mentioned in other posts of my trips from Rugby to Peterborough and the change in driver behaviour between the DC A14 and the SC A605. DC,sales repmobiles up the exhaust pipe in L2 whilst overtaking trucks, at 70 . SC- same repmobiles drining in zombie fashion ,like sheep , afraid to overtake .Perhaps if this experiment is the success I hope it will be, then we'll see the death knell for the anti speed freaks and more liberalisation and education .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

In my part of the world 50MPH has already become the default NSL (apart from the over 40's naughty brigade).

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The only reason they have increased it is that the HGVs will then be legal and they wont have to do so much paperwork to avoid booking all the lorries! And there are tons and tons of them.
Several lorry drivers have contacted Safe Speed in the past and told of horrendous stories of insane overtaking attempts often resulting in a crash or very very close near-misses.
People who are from the cities are increasingly rarely experiencing an overtake on a SC so there are less experienced over-takers anyway. This is really dangers to place av cameras on a massive length. The last I heard it was the stretch from Dunblane to Perth - the busier section although I dare say they'd love to put and av cam for a 200m journey!!! But frankly even a 40m journey will make it extremely tiring and so it will be avoided and people will travel the only other alternative! They probably cannot do the whole 200mile route as it is so very remote.
The lorries stop at various locations so the average speed will then be reduced so depending exactly where the cameras are will depend on the need to stop for some.
Perhaps this dualling the road is coming in before they fear a loss of funds from Westminster!
I think it an outrage to common sense and road safety to place average cameras anywhere never mind on a route where very few alternatives exist. I also bet they will retain the cameras (having spent so much to put them in !) after the road is finished.

The reasons I have seen are :
1) all drive so close to each other
2) so their views are very restricted
3) they cannot then see the opportunities opening up
4) they miss the start of good overtakes
5) ... so then they get frustrated and all bunch up even more
6) frustration increases mile after mile
7) they finally get so fed up they overtake 'anyway'
8) whether at the end of a long straight or not!
9) most of the road is fairly wide so people have moderate near misses as long as everyone is tolerant.
10) most good straights have utterly ridiculous Double white line overly long extensions to the point now that few obey them.
11) they've trialed illegal 2 lane vs one lane and then switch directions and people are so slow off the mark barely everyone gets past the slow vehicle/s - thus building frustration.
12) on the dual carriageway parts that do exist people are regularly encouraged to pull over to allow faster traffic to pass...
that will go if the av scams take over !

So this (av scams) will lead to even GREATER:
Frustration
Annoyance
Inattention
more dangerous manoeuvres
major braking and stopping prior to av scams

What we do need is :
No av scams but policed by trafpol
Allow the HGV to run at 60
and reg cars at 70 for the whole route (and/or remove speed limits for overtaking manoeuvres on rural roads ? )
More lanes for slow lorries on the (many) hills, there are several and they work well. (done before all d/c)
reminders about how to overtake perhaps or good driver behaviour. There are remote lit signs so these could be used but there aren't that many !

It will be a great road once upgraded and as a new d/c
Special road colour markings when you are on a d/c eg perhaps a special painted colour like light blue for the road edge than white or a pale yellow/orange?

The main problem has been foreign drivers and the d/c was requested as the d/c parts than come and go can confuse people and then they forget if they are on a bit of d/c or s/c ! In bad weather that can be exaggerated, snow especially.

The road during previous works creates massive tail backs so people are likely to avoid the route anyway thus leaving the less able drivers to handle the frustration etc.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The bit about a lenient attitude to a high speed on overtake is just common sense. The most dangerous thingis to limit overtaking speed ,as this leads to frustration and that is a recipe for a major accident. Something else might be a police attitude to those who prevent overtaking. For those who cannot drive through a windy section at a reasonable speed without massive braking and then race away on a straight section ,perhaps they need a little education . Those blatantly preventing -a lot more action .
There's nothing more frustrating than following idiot MK1 who brakes on every corner or on seeing a HGV, and then speeds up on straights. Again ,there is also nothing more frustrating than being in a line of traffic ,where the lead vehicles show no competence/inclination of an overtake of the obstruction and those behind do not leave room for those who've caught up and are obviously travelling a lot faster to move up and overtake. This is something I've seen regularly on my trips north ,especially on the A82 in Glencoe, where sometimes you have to pass more than one vehicle because there's insufficient gap to pass them one at a time. and if you try to pull in ,either the gap is reduced or there's a lot of horn noises.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

56. That? the maximum. EU mandated.
Never forgetting that vans are limited by law to under 60 on SC roads, and 60 on DC.
Unless you had forgotten, a LOT of trucks, and probably ALL trucks in a few years, have trackers fitted. An ASDA driver told me that his route is planned and he has no ability to change it. He drives to the speed limit because his truck stores location and speed data (as well as other data, such as lights on/off, door open, fuel caps open)
Then there is the digital tacho, now fitted to practically all trucks, and of course the road transport directive regulates drivers hours...etc.
Then again, it may well be that digital tachos have to have gps logging enabled soon.....
Not that it makes any difference.
Of course, if you ever have an out-of-control truck heading towards you, straight through the armco centre barrier, and the other carriageway armco and into a ditch, you may well consider that the limit on speed they can do is correct.
The latest limiter also enables the truck brakes to ensure no over-run on hills I´m told..

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Why, because if it hits it will hurt so much less than it would travelling at 60? Or 70 for that matter.

Beat me to it! I was just about say I'm not sure I'd be bothered either way if a truck came through the Armco at me doing 60 as opposed to 56!

(SS2)



I wonder any drivers take notice of the notices. They exist on Loch Ness side and I never saw any drivers taking any notice in all the months I drove that road. In the summer months I found it was less frustrating to branch off at Fort Augustus . Something I notice not mentioned is that on the hilly up/down sections a higher speed will allow the HGV to keep a better average speed as they can attack the up sections at a higher speed .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Most truck drivers think they could handle a truck at 90mph, and consider the 90Kph an ¨insult¨....which is why I mentioned the ¨armco¨ incident. I think the 40 for trucks on a s/c road is right.

Just thought I´d put this url here, noticed it on the abd feed:
http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issues/27342/notices/2/recent=10;category=transport;subcategory=road-traffic-acts

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I have no problem with HGVs doing 50-56MPH. We get a lot on the major roads near me and compared to the supermarket and milk lorries, (who seem to be the main ones sticking to 40MPH), hold up traffic a lot less noticeably.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

But until the advent of automated enforcement which could differentiate between different classes of vehicle it wasn't really enforced. And before limiters it was commonplace to have trucks travelling at car speeds without widespread carnage.

Limiters and rigid speed enforcement of the HGV40 seem to have done nothing for road safety and on motorways and dual carriageways have created the elephant race.