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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:00 
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A welcome outbreak of common sense from Eric Pickles

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23837610

But will councils take any notice?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:31 
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PeterE wrote:
A welcome outbreak of common sense from Eric Pickles

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23837610

But will councils take any notice?


This is by no means the first time Eric Pickles has produced a welcome bit of common sense, but I very much doubt if the predominently anti-car local authorities will take any notice.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 13:33 
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I, for one, rarely go into Birmingham City centre precisely because the parking is both difficult and extortionate. There is a shopping centre the same distance away in the opposite direction from my house which is far better.

Instead of the half hour shuffle I'd get going to Brum and paying some £5 or more I go a Mall in Reddich which takes me 10 minutes and on Sunday it's £1 all day.

No contest...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:18 
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It annoys me that those in power ( a VERY privileged position) abuse it with SUCH flippant regard to those they are meant to serve.
The balancing act of allowing cars into a town will not be down to what they do or not do but down to hwo much a person needs to be there and wants to be there.
People will flock to a location that provides them with interest and perhaps 'fun', and they will tolerate all sorts of inconveniences to be there.

However there is a limit and constant town traffic 'management' to discourage traffic will take effect. Businesses ought to see their rents drop dramatically with these actions as it's very unfair. We ought to really have free parking for every town and city .... but it would I know be abused! So we have to try and get a fair balance when we have to have charges.
Even a £1 charge is a hassle and annoying and stops you (when they are time limited) from really shopping and browsing and perhaps get a bite to eat ... it takes away the town centre activity as many are time limited.

People will not go if it is TOO much of a hassle, they will go elsewhere. It is our choice. It is influenced by money but by convenience and other factors too. They have now priced it too high and put people off. They will have to spend vast sums now trying to get people back and be hypocritical too ... parking warden told NOT to ticket cars etc !! Remove many vehicle preventative features etc ....
It's all a constant roundabout of nonsense because the left and right hands seem to not know what they are really doing. Where is all the data that they ought to be able to turn to and learn from ?

But then this is why we should have Government advice and decisions to help local Councils govern, and provide some basic rules and guidelines to help a consistent national approach in all sorts of areas. Thus keeping the National feel of towns and cities fairly consistent.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 13:11 
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I doubt if the anti car mob in Town Hall will listen . Prime example is NBBC. Weve got bollards in both town centres ,which are raised from 10am-1600. There are the usual restrictions after this . Loading, blue badge ,taxis and cyclists. There is a one way system in operation ,which is one of the reasons our herr council leader is using to try to get the time of exclusion extended . The signs are well hidden and I can't fault some drivers for missing them ,given the rampant mis use of this area by CYCLISTS, who are the law ( according to them )( goes out to erect anti bike shelter :o ). Then there's the common problem with pedestrians . It is a pedestrian /mixed area so why can't pedestrians extend the same courtesy to cars that drivers give to them . The time of exclusion has already been raised withnthe County counciller in charhe of highways on safety grounds . Surprise ,surprise , there's been a few near misses ,so that got thrown out . ( along with the head of local councillor's dummy), he ranted and raved and it's gone back for a decision . So there you have democracy ( TownHall style) in action .I suspect it's more to do with the income from the car parks, as onewith reserved council spaces is loosing the reserved spaces . He's also had a dig at the shared parking attendants not doing their job properly . Again is this a ploy to get local council parking attendants ( and the income) ?. Next ,I'm waiting to see if they attack the stream of blue badge hooders who park on the double yellows next to one car park .They could let blus badge holders park free ,instead of giving them an extra hour .

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 13:45 
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Claire wrote:
We ought to really have free parking for every town and city .... but it would I know be abused!
How do you "abuse" free parking?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 09:50 
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malcolmw wrote:
Claire wrote:
We ought to really have free parking for every town and city .... but it would I know be abused!
How do you "abuse" free parking?


At a guess, people parking all day to go to work via train rather than shoppers staying for a few hours.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 
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If there is a demand for free parking for the train, shops or whatever then provide it in abundance. This all stimulates the economy and makes everything more efficient. Parking to go to work is not abuse. It's a legitimate requirement which people ought to expect to be made available if there is high demand.

The "social engineers" in Government/Councils want you to cycle or take public transport and don't seem to realise that their policies are killing commercial activity.

What is the thing that is always said about out-of-town shopping centres? "Its the free parking and convenience at malls which is killing off town centres." The answer is obvious (and it's not to charge for parking at shopping centres).

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 18:44 
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While I agree that there should be abundant free parking the reality is there just isn't enough space. The availability, accessibility and cost of parking are major factors in choosing what line or station a commuter uses.

As an example, I can waminutes. ither of two stations in about twenty minutes, due to parking restrictions it is not worth driving. There is another station that is a ten minute drive away which has a better service into London, saves around fifteen minutes. If I was commuting everyday then availability of plentiful and free parking may make me choose to drive to the further station rather than walk. Many people making this choice would have an impact on local traffic flows.

What I am saying is that it is not as simple as having plenty of free parking.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 19:51 
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The problem is that this country simply was not built around cars and car ownership, it was more around much fewer horse & cart, cycling and that ole nugget walking.

Look at car spaces and see how people struggle to get their big thing in a little space, built to accommodate a 1960's Mini. In my suburban area, look at monster trucks with some 40 wheels clogging the high street of villages. They are an embolism to traffic in my area ffs!!! :furious:

When I lived in California I never once had a problem either finding somewhere to park or paid to park! (Built around the car; for better or worse).

This country is trying to turn water into, corked, English wine. Should I be blaming the EU or the stupid British way of doing things badly...? (Much broader and separate argument perhaps).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:25 
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The USA is finding that investing in cycling and walking is a good way of encouraging local shopping (and there's a place that WAS built around the motor vehicle).

Quote:
“Cyclists are greater spenders on average,” Clifton writes. “Patrons who arrive by automobile do not necessarily convey greater monetary benefits to businesses than bicyclists, transit users, or pedestrians. This finding is contrary to what business owners often believe.”


http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/10/bik ... usinesses/

Lots of evidence out there that motor vehicles are the last thing that should be encouraged to drive into town centres.

I'm guessing Mr Pickles doesn't ride a bike, or even walk maybe.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 13:24 
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In the USA, the only people who cycle are the wealthy middle class. It's not surprising that they spend more per head lazing around in Starbucks in the quaint town centres than the working class people who drive there and have to leave after a few minute to get back to their jobs.

In the real world, they go to Walmart and do their shopping - by car.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 14:18 
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Yes, and Manhattan's East Village is no more typical of the US than Shoreditch is typical of the UK.

I wonder how many well-off cycle shoppers there are in downtown Houston.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 14:35 
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malcolmw wrote:
In the USA, the only people who cycle are the wealthy middle class.


Har har! Stacks of employee's bikes next to car washes would say otherwise.


malcolmw wrote:
In the real world, they go to Walmart and do their shopping - by car.


So what's that got to do with local highstreets?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 14:41 
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PeterE wrote:
I wonder how many well-off cycle shoppers there are in downtown Houston.


It's not really a shopping destination, but it does have it's own bike hire scheme, and local special interest group.

http://houston.bcycle.com/home.aspx

http://www.bikehouston.org/


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 00:51 
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malcolmw wrote:
If there is a demand for free parking for the train, shops or whatever then provide it in abundance. This all stimulates the economy and makes everything more efficient. Parking to go to work is not abuse. It's a legitimate requirement which people ought to expect to be made available if there is high demand.

The "social engineers" in Government/Councils want you to cycle or take public transport and don't seem to realise that their policies are killing commercial activity.

What is the thing that is always said about out-of-town shopping centres? "Its the free parking and convenience at malls which is killing off town centres." The answer is obvious (and it's not to charge for parking at shopping centres).
Totally agree that free parking on town centres should be widespread throughout the UK although what happens in major cities ? Would locals not end up using a free carpark as a garage ? How best to deal with this ? Time restrict to a 13 hr window or so ?
Re 'abuse' ... I was thinking about un-intended use of a car park, as a 'private garage', but also where built in the town to 'shop or use a service or facility' ... which whilst including PT they really ought to have better parking of their own. And this was my point about abuse through lack of other parking ! Some areas are ok, but parking for PT can be very expensive and adds to the expense of tickets !
We have been encouraged to use PT but the time factor to use such is rarely considered or helped - like with good parking.
Perhaps driving further out of town to some larger car parks would help relieve some parking strain on the nearer car parks but again wastes peoples time and adds traffic to the roads.
Train parking ought to be included more for all stations (nearby as possible). Some car parks allow for long stay for this purpose. It surely just needs to be properly catered for. I agree more would use PT if parking allowances were better & free !

Of course if employers also helped staff by providing flexi hours so people can share, the one car in families, or to ease car share between employees and even with neighbouring business. So times of work help car share (once trust is built). :)
One place I recently looked at buying where there was no parking even for my car, the agent suggested that I ask the neighbouring property, that I buy a tiny piece of land and offer them £5000 so that I could park just one car ! He thought that was also a perfectly fair price ! I was astounded and asked OK but where do my visitors park? No answer! I didn't buy the property.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 00:59 
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Recent reports for Wandsworth showed that they needed to spend 1.2M improving car parks as there was such a loss of business as car drivers were being put off and simply drove to the next shopping facilities where parking was better.
Each culture is different, as is each area to greater and lesser extents, but a sensible allowance for each traveller is most favourable.
People carry bikes because it's safer than leaving one tied up all day! Plus if you want to cycle at either end of the PT journey its helpful and more ideal than only at one end. But if cycle storage facilities were far better then maybe this would increase a tendency to have a bike at either end ?? :) Or is that getting just too 'convenient' ? :lol:
Are we really all being seriously inconvenienced by the fear of theft and 'chancers'?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 09:32 
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For reference :
BBC News wrote:
Ditch 'anti-car dogma' and boost parking, councils told
26 August 2013 Last updated at 00:52

Photo :Traffic warden in London Mr Pickles criticised "over-zealous" parking wardens for "inflicting real damage on local economies"

Councils in England should provide more parking spaces in town centres and cut down on speed humps, the secretary of state for communities has said.
New planning guidance will also say councils should ensure parking charges do not "undermine" local economies.
"Draconian" parking policies and "over-zealous traffic wardens" had driven motorists into internet retailers and out-of-town stores, Eric Pickles said.
Councils said such intervention made it harder for them to meet local needs.
The guidance, which is due to be published this week, says: "The quality of parking in town centres is important; it should be convenient, safe and secure.
"Parking charges should be appropriate and not undermine the vitality of town centres and local shops, and parking enforcement should be proportionate."

It urges councils to ensure that street furniture including lighting, railings, litter bins, paving and fountains are "well designed and sensitively placed".
"Unnecessary clutter and physical constraints such as parking bollards and road humps should be avoided," it adds.

'Economic damage'
"Draconian Town Hall parking policies and street clutter can make driving into town centres unnecessarily stressful and actually create more congestion because of lack of places to park," Mr Pickles said.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
Creating more spaces in town and city centres where there is no room for them is simply not the way to draw more shoppers”

Local Government Association
"Anti-car measures are driving motorists into the arms of internet retailers and out of town superstores, taking their custom with them.
"Over-zealous parking wardens have inflicted real damage on local economies and given many towns and councils a bad name.
"Town Halls need to ditch their anti-car dogma. Making it easier to park will help support local shops, local jobs and tourism."

But a spokesman for the Local Government Association, which represents more than 370 councils in England and Wales, said: "Councils work hard to try and boost trade and keep High Streets vibrant through parking incentives such as free short-stay, cheaper evenings and free Sundays.
"Creating more spaces in town and city centres where there is no room for them is simply not the way to draw more shoppers to the High Street.
"Parking measures help avoid congestion in our high streets.
"In fact, the government's own figures show charges in England are falling in real terms while councils invest any revenue back into transport services like filling potholes and road improvement projects.
"The more government continues to intervene in this way, the less flexibility local authorities have to react to the individual needs of local shoppers, residents and traders and support local businesses and High Streets in their area."

The government says the new guidance is part of an online guide that replaces 7,000 pages of previous "planning practice guidance" documents, and also part of a wider initiative to support parking and local shoppers

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 17:28 
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Quote:
“If Mr Pickles is interested in the wellbeing of retailers, he should listen to them,” said Councillor Ward.

“Retailers want people coming in spending two to three hours shopping, they don’t want the car parks silting up with commuters and tourists and them not being available to shoppers, which would happen if we took the prices down.


http://road.cc/content/news/91939-eric- ... us-cycling


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 07:48 
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You don't think a site labelled "cycling website of the year" might just be a little biased in favour of its chosen mode of transport?
LGA wrote:
Creating more spaces in town and city centres where there is no room for them is simply not the way to draw more shoppers.
Why not try it and see?

It's like badger culling. Lots of noise about how it won't work but, until you try it, there is no proof.

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