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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 20:13 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ences.html

It's also headlines on the paper Daily telegraph, but not on the online one

Motorists face new raft of fines under plans to give councils police-style powers to crack down on traffic offences
Ministers accused of treating drivers like 'cash cows'
Councils want to sanction illegal turns, yellow box violations and driving in cycles lanes

Campaigners fear local authorities will use them as a 'revenue-raiser'
Some have already been approached by number-plate recognition companies



By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 08:09, 27 August 2012 | UPDATED: 08:10, 27 August 2012

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Ministers have been accused of using motorists as a 'cash cow' over plans to give councils the power to impose fines for a raft of extra traffic offences.

The Local Government Association (LGA) has lobbied the government for the right to sanction drivers for illegal turns, encroaching yellow boxes and driving in cycle lanes.

Minsters have signalled they are 'sympathetic' to the idea despite the Coalition having pledged to end the 'war on motorists' when it came to power.



Milking it: Councils are lobbying government for the right to fine motorists for offences such as encroaching in yellow boxes and illegal turns

Motoring groups warned councils were likely to use the new powers as a 'revenue raiser' as they have done with parking fines.

In London, where authorities already have the ability to impose extra sanctions, more than £50million was raised by fining 800,000 drivers on top of more than £250million in parking penalties.




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Around 20 councils in other parts of the country are believed to have been in discussions with the Department of Transport about getting the powers, which would be transferred from the police.

They include Birmingham, Brighton and Hove, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Plymouth, Reading, Salford, Sheffield and Southampton, according to the Daily Telegraph.



In the money: Councils around the country are looking to get powers enjoyed by those in London, such as fining motorists for using cycle lanes

Local authorities will likely use CCTV to catch offenders and those in talks have already been approached by firms operating number-plate recognition cameras.

This, coupled with the sharp rise in speed cameras, which at their height earned more than £100million, has led motorists to believe they have become an easy target.

Paul Watters, a spokesman for the AA, said: 'This will alienate those drivers who make a simple mistake.


'I think the risk is the cameras will click away automatically where there is a traffic management problem, such as a badly designed junction.'



Spy in the sky: Local authorities will use CCTV to catch offenders and some have already been approached by firms operating number-plate recognition cameras

But Peter Box, from the LGA, said the measures would 'unquestionably help ease congestion, reduce pollution and make roads safer for everyone.'

He added: 'Very little is currently done to the minority of inconsiderate drivers who block cycle lanes and bus lanes... and clog box junctions causing long tailbacks.

'Not only do these needless infringements cause frustration to responsible motorists, they can also put cyclists at risk by forcing them into busy traffic.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z24m8qbN8f

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 02:09 
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I am re-quoting the article for clarity.
Motorists face new raft of fines under plans to give councils police-style powers to crack down on traffic offences
By Daniel Martin, Whitehall Correspondent - PUBLISHED: 08:09, 27 August 2012 | UPDATED: 02:10, 28 August 2012

Fears councils will use drivers as a cash cow
Councils want to sanction illegal turns, yellow box violations and driving in cycle lanes
Councils are seeking new powers to fine motorists for a series of minor traffic infringements.

Ministers say they are ‘sympathetic’ to proposals to transfer a range of powers to hand out fines from police to town halls.

But campaigners fear hard-up councils could use drivers as a cash cow, seeking to boost their revenue from the fines.
Milking it: Councils are lobbying government for the right to fine motorists for offences such as encroaching in yellow boxes and illegal turns

Milking it: Councils are lobbying government for the right to fine motorists for offences such as encroaching in yellow boxes and illegal turns

The Department for Transport is in discussions with around 20 councils that want the right to fine drivers who commit offences such as making illegal turns, straying into yellow boxes or driving in bus and cycle lanes.

The proposals come despite the fact that the Coalition pledged to end the ‘war on motorists’ when it took power at the last general election.
Local authorities already have the power to fine motorists for parking illegally.
Now the Local Government Association, which represents councils, also wants them to have the power to fine drivers for many ‘moving traffic offences’.

Councils in London were granted the power to fine drivers for such offences in 2004.

Last year they used the extended powers to fine 800,000 motorists, raising at least £50million. This is on top of £250million raised in parking fines.
The ways they'll get you
* Making illegal turns
* Encroaching on yellow boxes
* Driving in bus lanes
* Driving in cycle lanes
* Going the wrong way down a one way street
* Driving up to the cyclist stop line at traffic lights
* Not following blue arrow signs
* Ignoring Vehicles Prohibited signs
* Not obeying Give Way signs
* Ignoring No Entry signs
* Entering a Pedestrian Zone

Now some 20 councils are demanding similar extended powers, including Birmingham, Brighton and Hove, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Plymouth, Reading, Salford, Sheffield and Southampton.
Motoring groups have warned that councils will be ‘over-zealous’ and use the new powers as a revenue raiser.

The AA said they will make more use of closed-circuit TV cameras to catch offenders and are likely to make motoring offences a greater priority than police forces.

Spokesman Paul Watters said: ‘This will alienate those drivers who make a simple mistake. The risk is the cameras will click away automatically where there is a traffic management problem, such as a badly-designed junction.’

Motorists outside London already pay £330million a year in parking fines.
In May, Lib Dem Transport Minister Norman Baker said he was ‘sympathetic to the cases that have been put to me’ to extend councils’ powers.
Most of the offences would be enforced by cameras, but traffic wardens might also be used.

Councils seeking the extra powers have already been approached by companies selling number plate recognition cameras.
In the money: Councils around the country are looking to get powers enjoyed by those in London, such as fining motorists for using cycle lanes

Peter Box, of the Local Government Association, said: ‘Very little is currently done to stop the minority of inconsiderate drivers who block cycle and bus lanes, pull up in cycle boxes at traffic lights and clog box junctions, causing tailbacks.
‘Not only do these needless infringements cause frustration to responsible motorists, they can also put cyclists at risk by forcing them into busy traffic. Granting councils the power to tackle impatient drivers who break the law and put others at risk in an attempt to shave seconds off their journey would unquestionably help ease congestion, reduce pollution and make roads safer for everyone.’

Last night a spokesman for the Department for Transport said: ‘No new powers would be handed to local authorities outside London without there being an absolutely clear case that the benefits to traffic would outweigh the cost to motorists.
'While London has shown that fines for traffic offences has reduced the number of offences, we have seen little evidence of how this has impacted on improving traffic flow, reducing congestion and improving safety across the capital.
‘No change to the current regime would go ahead without a full consultation with all road users and stakeholders.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z25AvSxCMa

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 02:24 
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Part of the problem with this is that in London it has NOT proved beneficial to road safety nor to the 'congestion' nor traffic flow, so what is the real purpose to add to the admin and misery for road users ?

The paranoia will dramatically increase and effect the way in which drivers become to scared to use 'common-sense'. Other effects of this will be far reaching and who knows where that will end!
Although some rules like being able under certain conditions to go up to the 'cyclists stop line' - the green box, an over zealous council employee become judge and jury and fail to understand the Law and fine when in fact someone was perfectly legal !
I appreciate some rules like one ways are totally clear, but was the signage clear or has the motorists made a bad mistake?
The onerous is always on the motorists to be responsible and to abide by the rules of course, however when other road users like some cyclists blatantly ignore some rules like red lights and so on, it will only serve to increase the anger motorists already feel at being sitting ducks to over zealous litigation and will potentially encourage that motorists learn to over-concentrate on every little rule and regulation than put damage to people and property first.
The emphasis changes and this may see worse care on the roads than better ...

Whilst I agree that people need to obey the rules and regulations applying more and more sticks and fines is not the way forward.

Motorists would be well within their right to start demanding that all cyclists have number plates too so that they too can be fined for all road use infringements. It starts to make everyone become 'petty' and point fingers when spending the money on more BIB helps to keep the balance fair and reasonable.

Once enforcement is activated for the sake of it, it is no longer fair and proportionate, and that is not good for road safety.
If ALL Councils can Always ensure that every road sign is correct and displayed properly, and they never make any mistakes, so they are perfect, then perhaps motorists would be right in being expected to never ever make any mistakes, either, but people do make mistakes, we are 'only human', so is justice and safety served by following up every single offence ? I don't think so.

Motorists will start to defend with in car videos to show how bad signs were and invisible and so on. Perhaps that is what they want, everyone defending with camera evidence ? :(

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 21:03 
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( bY ss2)If ALL Councils can Always ensure that every road sign is correct and displayed properly, and they never make any mistakes, so they are perfect, then perhaps motorists would be right in being expected to never ever make any mistakes, either, but people do make mistakes, we are 'only human', so is justice and safety served by following up every single offence ? I don't think so


That's the one thing that jumped out and hit me. With BIB, there would always be some discretion, and advice at THE TIME OF THE OFFENCE.And, BIB would be taking action on safety grounds. The way certain councils ( and from memory ,it seems the ones who were at the forefront of robot policing) are trying to get in on the act smacks to me of an attempt to shore up the coffers, not improve road safety. Again, with BIB,errors would be pointed out and lessons learned. What lessons ( other than when in doubt err on the side of minimal damage to wallet) ,with a photo arriving in the post some days later. We've only got to look at the mis use of terrorist legislation by councils to see how some zealots could make this "a nice little earner". And for those in doubt- locally, covert ,mini cameras & terrorist legislation was used in one pub to prosecute for breach of smoking regulations. With that sort of track record, can councils really be trusted to self regulate .And if they don't self regulate, who does regulate.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 09:16 
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I have already e-mailed my MP on this, (fat lot of good that'll do, I can hear you all saying !!).

I suggested that if councils are to be allowed to do this enforcement, then the law must be changed for yellow-box junctions and buslanes so that the offence becomes one of actually obstructing another road user, be it a bus in a bus lane and other vehicles at a YBJ.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 02:24 
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I would like to think that writing to your MP might bring about some consideration of your position, after all they are meant to be representing their constituents !
Some will agree with you too, so I wouldn't loose heart that writing to them is a pointless exercise.

The problem of vehicles entering junctions (apart from bad driving) is one of traffic flow and not entirely one resolved by pure automated enforcement. If flow is obstructed (especially un-necessarily as with some deliberately slow light changes) then the traffic bunches up, and those who had previously found 5 cars with get through the lights, then find that only 3 or 4 pass through, so they find themselves left high and dry in a YBJ ! In heavy city traffic people 'learn' with a fine line what can be achieved, so any sudden unexpected changes like this will see 1000's ticketed through auto-enforcement .... all that brings is cash to Councils, treasury etc., but no improvement to road safety. The on going increase in paranoia is of concern however. No road safety will result whatsoever.

No increase in skills, knowledge or abilities will have been achieved. No pride in being a better driver is forthcoming, and being more cautious of becoming 'stuck' in the YBJ, there will be 'no chances' in this game of 'monopoly road safety' !

However place a BIB at a few junctions and people behave and remember to be courteous and sensible and position carefully or any one of these errors might be 'discussed at length'! :lol:

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