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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 01:41 
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Daily Mail wrote:
So much for the promise to cut speed cameras... now there are even more!
By Ray Massey - PUBLISHED: 01:37, 10 July 2012 | UPDATED: 07:51, 10 July 2012

Spreading: Speed camera sites have increased despite Government promises to end the war on the motorist
Speed camera sites have increased despite Government promises to end the war on the motorist, figures reveal today.

The number of fixed speed camera sites in England increased to 2,331 this year, compared with 2,188 in 2010.

The Government promised it would end Labour’s 12-year war on the motorist, citing the obsession with speed cameras as the most visible example.
But critics say local councils and police safety partnerships have not got the message.

The expected camera ‘switch-off’ has failed to happen, according to the RAC Foundation, which obtained the figures in a Freedom of Information request.
The number of cameras that can actually take pictures fell from 529 in 2010 to 487 this year, meaning only one in six has film in.
And the number of fixed speed camera housings fell slightly over the period, from 3,039 to 3,026. Supporters argue that, as motorists cannot tell which cameras do not take photographs, the deterrent effect is the same.
Some areas have more than one fixed speed camera site as they have space for a camera on both sides of the road.

The RAC figures also show that, of the 32 administrative bodies that used fixed speed cameras and which responded to the request, ten said they had made no changes to the level of provision of camera sites. Several others registered only small changes in provision over the past two years.
And only two areas – Avon and Somerset and Wiltshire and Swindon – have switched off all operational cameras.

The bodies with the largest number of camera sites in 2012 were Transport for London with 526, West Midlands Safety Partnership with 304, Blackpool Council with 282 and Thames Valley with 245. The Association of British Drivers said the speed camera figures were ‘surprising and disgraceful’.

A spokesman added: ‘The Government has reneged on its promise to end the war on the motorist. This obsession with speed cameras is continuing apace. Councils and police are continuing to put all their emphasis on one thing.
The number of fixed speed camera sites in England increased to 2,331 this year, compared with 2,188 in 2010

‘Speed cameras cannot detect a drink-driver, a drug-driver, a dangerous driver or someone driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions – which is most likely below the allowed speed limit.’

RAC Foundation director Professor Stephen Glaister said: ‘Many people believe there has been a mass switch-off of cameras over the past couple of years. But the data shows that overall this is simply not true.
‘Although there are many more housings than cameras, it seems that the cameras are regularly rotated between them ensuring there is some level of positive enforcement at most sites.
‘It is also important to note that many police constabularies rely heavily on mobile cameras to catch law breakers and in many cases now have an increased emphasis on this type of operation.’
But he said the foundation was concerned that councils’ shrinking budgets meant there was ‘a lack of money for all aspects of road safety’.
He added: ‘We urge councillors to allocate adequate budgets to protect people on the roads by whatever means is appropriate.’

r.massey@dailymail.co.uk
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z20GnG8OuG
Could these be the mass of cameras being placed on the Motorway Gantries ? Just appalling if upon closer inspection it is actually true!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 15:50 
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As I posted elsewhere ,since the Tories took over ,one damaged camera has been replaced , another wet film one ( from released 2010 figures this one was the second highest earner locally) changed to Digital and have now had a newspaper campaign about "speed" ,warning that areas complained about will be targeted by newly trained PC & PCSO . As I commented on the article, when they did a check ,the percentage over the limit was low .

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 17:17 
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Just have a drive around Stoke-on-Trent. There are hundreds upon hundreds of cameras. It is absolutely grotesque, they are literally every 100 yards. Most people are driving within the limit, (obviously !!), but what a way to treat people. I don't care what others may say, this is just oppression; you don't have to break the limit to feel you are being spied on by malevolent people from the second you leave your driveway to the second you return.

Every time I drive there I am in a constant state of apprehension that I may have missed a limit sign, although most streets are 30 mph. I suspect the "partnership" would like to extend cameras and constant surveillance into peoples homes next; should keep their jobs and pensions safe, I would think. The parking regime is also very oppressive here too, parking wardens 24 hours a day, 7 days a week !!! No wonder this is an unemployment black spot; what potential employer could possibly want to come here ?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 18:45 
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I'm up around Stoke all the time and know exactly what you're on about. The place is great! Took my main squeeze to Trentham Gardens around the Italian gardens, lovely, and the people are amongst the friendliest I've ever met in the UK.

Would I want to live there? Absolutely not! For the reasons you said. It's nearly as bad a Brum for Big Brotherism...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 09:13 
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To be fair the government cut the funding - and we saw those drops in numbers, until they discovered the Speed Awareness Course method of diverting funds back into their speed camera empire.

Paul always said that the SAC was flawed in that drivers just over the limit benefited from not being awarded points, while those well over the limit, and most in need of retraining, were simply punished and allowed to continue.

The Government needs to tilt the table back so that those just over get a fine and points, while those well over get to retake their test, and end this SAC racket for good!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:16 
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I'd like to suggest one slight modification to that proposal.

- those just over get a fine;
- those well over get a fine, points and to retake their test.

This is more closely aligned to the old system of catching and punishing the gross offenders while providing the cash as now.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:44 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
To be fair the government cut the funding - and we saw those drops in numbers, until they discovered the Speed Awareness Course method of diverting funds back into their speed camera empire.

Paul always said that the SAC was flawed in that drivers just over the limit benefited from not being awarded points, while those well over the limit, and most in need of retraining, were simply punished and allowed to continue.

The Government needs to tilt the table back so that those just over get a fine and points, while those well over get to retake their test, and end this SAC racket for good!


The snag would be that because no additional investment would be channeled to testing stations, the wait for a retest would become, in effect, a lengthy ban. (Plus "well over" is not necessarily always a dire crime). Compulsory retraining without a retest (backed up by additional fines for non-completion) might work better?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:17 
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safedriver wrote:
Just have a drive around Stoke-on-Trent. There are hundreds upon hundreds of cameras. It is absolutely grotesque, they are literally every 100 yards. Most people are driving within the limit, (obviously !!), but what a way to treat people. I don't care what others may say, this is just oppression; you don't have to break the limit to feel you are being spied on by malevolent people from the second you leave your driveway to the second you return.

Every time I drive there I am in a constant state of apprehension that I may have missed a limit sign, although most streets are 30 mph. I suspect the "partnership" would like to extend cameras and constant surveillance into peoples homes next; should keep their jobs and pensions safe, I would think. The parking regime is also very oppressive here too, parking wardens 24 hours a day, 7 days a week !!! No wonder this is an unemployment black spot; what potential employer could possibly want to come here ?

If you drive at reasonable speeds and don't park where you should not you cannot suffer oppression.

If you wish to drive faster than you are allowed and park wherever you wish you may feel oppressed but you may need to learn to accept the reasonable regulation of traffic or alternately take a bus or a taxi.


Last edited by GreenShed on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:38, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 13:02 
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safedriver wrote:

Every time I drive there I am in a constant state of apprehension that I may have missed a limit sign, although most streets are 30 mph. I suspect the "partnership" would like to extend cameras and constant surveillance into peoples homes next; should keep their jobs and pensions safe, I would think. The parking regime is also very oppressive here too, parking wardens 24 hours a day, 7 days a week !!! No wonder this is an unemployment black spot; what potential employer could possibly want to come here ?



And regulation by itself is SUPPOSED to make roads safer . Only folks who like the regulation bit are those with a vested interest in keeping their job on the speed merry go round. Show a driver why it's not safe, and they'll get the message. Society would be in an uproar if kids were punished for some anti social acts without an explanation .

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 13:42 
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Sorry, Greenshed, maybe you don't drive, (it certainly seems so from your post), but I don't have to break the law in SoT to feel that there are people there whose sole aim in life is to catch law-abiding people out for small mistakes. My description of this is:

Feasting on Fallibility.

My, they are certainly feasting in SoT !! We all make mistakes from time to time; should we always be hammered heavily over the head for them ? Did you get 100% in all your school exams ? No, thought not.
I have been driving 40 years without causing an accident so far, even minor. I think I am doing most things right, but recognise I am fallible like most of the population.

Do you never, ever, make any mistakes in driving or other activities ?

I rest my case.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 14:03 
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So only the guilty feel oppressed do they Greenstick? There must have been a lot of guilty people during world war 2 then!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 14:58 
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safedriver wrote:
Sorry, Greenshed, maybe you don't drive, (it certainly seems so from your post), but I don't have to break the law in SoT to feel that there are people there whose sole aim in life is to catch law-abiding people out for small mistakes. My description of this is:

Feasting on Fallibility.

My, they are certainly feasting in SoT !! We all make mistakes from time to time; should we always be hammered heavily over the head for them ? Did you get 100% in all your school exams ? No, thought not.
I have been driving 40 years without causing an accident so far, even minor. I think I am doing most things right, but recognise I am fallible like most of the population.

Do you never, ever, make any mistakes in driving or other activities ?

I rest my case.

I drive 10's of thousands of miles a year and own 4 vehicles, 2 motorcycles and 2 cars; I also hire a lot of vehicles, almost weekly in fact and have been driving since 1977.

I make loads of mistakes and have broken the speed limit from time-to-time, of course I have. I mostly got close to 100% in my exams but only achieved the magic 100% on a few occasions. What I attempt to do though is to drive in a safe and compliant way. In doing that I feel in no way oppressed because I have bothered my arse to learn the rules and attempt to practice them; so far with 100% success.


Last edited by GreenShed on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:39, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 14:59 
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graball wrote:
So only the guilty feel oppressed do they Greenstick? There must have been a lot of guilty people during world war 2 then!

That's bollocks and you know it.


Last edited by GreenShed on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:39, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 16:08 
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really, what's Bo''''s?, there were no oppressed people during world war 2 or they were all guilty? You seem to be saying only guilty people need feel oppressed around SOT.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 16:18 
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GreenShed wrote:
I drive 10's of thousands of miles a year and own 4 vehicles, 2 motorcycles and 2 cars; I also hire a lot of vehicles, almost weekly in fact and have been driving since 1977.

I make loads of mistakes and have broken the speed limit from time-to-time, of course I have. I mostly got close to 100% in my exams but only achieved the magic 100% on a few occasions. What I attempt to do though is to drive in a safe and compliant way. In doing that I feel in no way oppressed because I have bothered my arse to learn the rules and attempt to practice them; so far with 100% success.
Well I have been riding and driving since August of 1975. Although I sold my car recently I still use my ex-girlfriend’s in our social life and four other vehicles at work totalling, at a guess, well over 30,000 miles a year. Just to be clear, that’s year after year after year. (Decade after decade in fact as I’m getting older).

Like you, I also have a motorbike which is currently on ~56,000 miles from new over seven years and it’s never been dropped despite using it through all weather types both here and on the Continent. As a biker, if you really are, you ought to know how laudable that success alone is in today’s traffic.

So then, would you care to tell me why is it that a speeding offence or two I might get tomorrow somehow, suddenly and miraculously, identifies me as a dangerous road user over and above any record I have carefully and safely built up during decades of driving and riding where I have proved how safe and capable I can be?

At least insurance companies don’t lie about these matters even if others do...

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 17:40 
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Quote:
I mostly got close to 100% in my exams but only achieved the magic 100% on a few occasions.


Well we all know that Maths wasn't one of them....did they do a CSE in Buls@@@ back then?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 17:55 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
I mostly got close to 100% in my exams but only achieved the magic 100% on a few occasions.


Well we all know that Maths wasn't one of them....did they do a CSE in Buls@@@ back then?


Well 35 in a 40 ---not bad.
And if anyone's baffled ,I've copied the relevant bit and added a bit of bold

GreenShed wrote:
I have been driving 40 years without causing an accident so far, even minor. I think I am doing most things right, but recognise I am fallible like most of the population.

Do you never, ever, make any mistakes in driving or other activities ?

I rest my case.

2012-1977 = umm 35, I rest my case

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 18:36 
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Yes, but he's from a planet far far away called Splinge and, a bit like translating cat years into human ones, it is disproportionate to us.

I think I need to qualify this... The Splingites, as they are known, are a strange creature which morphs into human form. (Latin name Splingus Splingus).

No one has ever seen one in its native state but It's believed to be a small green furry creature with retractable tentacles, a bit like a slug, and feeds on forums. If it loses one of its seven legs it re-grows a new one.

You may think that's an odd number. :? Well, only recently, scientists discovered they can have a 'oh no' moment where they realise the 'claptrap' flinge, (near the sudo-cerebelbum), becomes self aware. At this point it holds steady with the other 6 legs and boots itself up its own arse into a different state of mind. Approximately 4 to 2,000 boots! :D

In order to mate, it has to gorge itself on posts which make no sense, (current thinking is >100).

Luckily, Steve has invented the Illogictron, (patent pending), which alerts members to these cheeky little critters. They will be available soon on SS at £299.99, not including batteries, or buy one and get another at the same price. :P

So to all who read this thread, don't worry, we're onto him. :)

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 18:56 
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botach wrote:
...

Safedriver wrote:
I have been driving 40 years without causing an accident so far, even minor. I think I am doing most things right, but recognise I am fallible like most of the population.

Do you never, ever, make any mistakes in driving or other activities ?

I rest my case.

2012-1977 = umm 35, I rest my case

oh dear,you have f^cked up again. Pay more attention.


Last edited by GreenShed on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:40, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 19:02 
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GreenShed wrote:
botach wrote:
...

Safedriver wrote:
I have been driving 40 years without causing an accident so far, even minor. I think I am doing most things right, but recognise I am fallible like most of the population.

Do you never, ever, make any mistakes in driving or other activities ?

I rest my case.

2012-1977 = umm 35, I rest my case

oh dear,you have f^cked up again. Pay more attention.
Not being nasty, but can you achieve near 100% in quoting posts. It makes it hard to read. :( Really, seriously, I asked SS to help me in the early days when I didn't understand stuff IIRC and AFAIK.. (And I'm not a natural scholar).

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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