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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:00 
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Guardian here
Guardian- Epsom - Hardeep Matharu wrote:
MP calls for speed cameras on Horton Lane, Epsom
9:30am Sunday 29th April 2012 in Epsom By Hardeep Matharu

Residents claim bikers speed down Horton Lane in Epsom Residents claim bikers speed down Horton Lane in Epsom

Chris Grayling MP has said a speed camera should be installed on a road used as by speeding motorbikers despite there only being a low number of collisions reported there.
Residents have complained about speeding in Horton Lane, despite officials claiming a low number of incidents on the road.

Duncan Knox, road safety team manager at Surrey County Council, revealed police had logged just four collisions leading to slight injury on Horton Lane between 2009 and 2011.
This is not enough to meet the criteria for a camera to be installed, but Mr Grayling said that speeding must be deterred using a camera before someone is seriously injured or killed.

Mr Grayling said:
Mr Grayling wrote:
"There is a problem of speeding around the county.
"There is no question that there are lots of motorbikes speeding and there are a number of roads in the area which are affected by this, including Horton Lane.
"I have been driving along Horton Lane and been overtaken by motorbikes. There is some excessive speeding and responsible measures should be taken to restrict people being able to speed.
"I support a camera being installed on Horton Lane, even if the number of collisions has been low.
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"Lunatic" biker races could result in death, say residents
"It would be a logical thing to do and this is what was done on West Hill which, to my knowledge, did not have many collisions occurring on it, but is in an area where there are lots of children walking around."

Mr Knox said: "Because fixed speed cameras are expensive to install and then require resources to maintain and process offences, they are usually reserved for the very worst collision hotspots where there has been a continuing history of serious collisions and where speeds have been measured and found to be excessive."

He said Horton Lane is included on Epsom and Ewell’s speed management plan and that the road has already been given additional attention by police.

Mr Knox added: "The county council's road safety team are now working with Surrey police to develop local speed management plans whereby lists of sites where speeding has been raised as a concern are compiled.
"The police will then measure the extent of the problem using new speed detection radar devices that can be mounted discreetly at the side of the road to measure the speeds.
"Depending the number of collisions and the level of speeding the police will then decide what resources should be applied to each site."

Local Labour Councillor Dan, Stevens, said discussions need to be had with representatives from the county council, borough council and police, and the information fed back to residents.
He added: "Measures such as the speeding community watch scheme are great, but these schemes are not always easy for people to do when they have jobs and families, and do people feel it is down to them to stand on the road and measures speeds?"

Data on road collisions is available to the public at
Have your say on this issue by leaving a comment below.
First they need to prove that the bikers really are 'speeding' and that there is a 'problem' in the first place. Showing motorists and the residents what speeds vehicles are travelling at via a VAS (vehicle activated sign/system) would help.
Residents can often think 'noise means speed' and are often wrong about judging speed. No authority ought to be only acting upon the word of residents alone but through proper research, science and engineering.

The provision of Police presence needs to be visible not through sneaky activities!
The Stats do not show a problem, so why make the classic mistake of trying to 'fix it'. That may well do more harm than good.

The authorities have themselves to blame when the public start to ask for non-existing problems to be dealt with, as they have generated this whole fear of speed and fear of transport. Now they are beginning to see the sting in the tale as the public ask for money to be spent solving a problem that doesn't exist.
Interestingly their answer is to do what we have asked for - put police back on the roads, which is good, but not just to act as a human speed camera.
They need to stop people and talk with them, to find out what was going on and give advice and only enforcement proportionately and appropriately.
Is the speed for this road appropriate anyway ? Is it one that has been recently lowered? Was that necessary? All roads ought to be set at the 85th%ile after taking proper research (we are aware that they have used speed cameras for speed surveys !). This completely misses the point, is wrong and shows how misguided they are.

VAS has proven to be helpful as it doesn't threaten people's licenses, so helps to guide road users as to their infringement of the law and in many cases by how much.

Remember that only 6% of accidents have speed as a factor not a cause and this is excessive speed and too fast for conditions, of which there is no classification to identify those who are above or below the speed limit.

Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:58 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
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Location: Highlands
I see that this link here : ... residents/
Shows that they have previously carried out surveys with police and they no longer thought that the street required any more attention. That makes me wonder if they were there at the times of 'trouble' that the residents have suggested in the media reports ?
In which case why didn't the residents have a local police person/s to call day or night, so that a patrol could arrive when activity was high ? If that happened regularly along with good advice and guidance from the Officers, then they would soon go elsewhere and / or curb their behaviour.

Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

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