Safe Speed Forums

Sneakiest road camera revealed
David Ottewell and Deborah Linton
27/11/2007

IS this the sneakiest camera in Britain?

Installed three weeks ago on the East Lancs Road near Salford, it will soon begin snapping motorists who jump red lights, seven days a week, 24 hours a day.

The camera - obscured by a huge road sign - is a new digital model and updates a previous camera that council chiefs say has been in place for 17 years.

But fuming motorists told the M.E.N. they hadn't noticed a camera there before - and said putting it behind a road sign was 'unfair'.

Salford council said the camera - on the A580 at its junction with the A572 Worsley Road - had to be close to the junction, and the sign had to be a certain size. That meant there was no alternative to putting the camera behind the sign, they said.

Under current government rules, a red-light camera DOES NOT have to be clearly visible to the motorist. A camera that checks for speeding DOES.

The council stressed that there were warning signs on the East Lancs Road alerting drivers to the camera's presence.

Coun Derek Antrobus said the camera was 'an important safety measure for pedestrians and motorists who use the busy junction'.

"It's also used as an enforcement tool to prosecute motorists who jeopardise the safety of others by running a red light," he said.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership said the camera was due to be commissioned in the `very near future' but they were working with Salford council to see if it could be made 'more visible'.

He added: "We are working together to reduce road casualties caused by red-light running and will continue to do all we can to physically make all our safety camera sites fully visible, where this is possible."

Rules

Shibu Thomas, owner of Power Petrol Station at the A580/A572 junction, said: "I'd never noticed it and none of my customers have ever said anything. We play by the rules by driving within the limit, so the council should, too."

Motorist Pat Tatum of Swinton, who was using the road to collect her grandchildren from school, said: "I'm not a dangerous driver, but I like to know where cameras are.

"I'm a law abiding citizen. It's not fair to conceal a camera."

Noel Rock, 66, from Eccles, said: "I spotted this a couple of months ago and it's about time something was done about it."

Mr Rock, a delivery driver who uses the road every day, added: "It shouldn't be hidden. They're trying to make victims out of motorists."

June Prescott, 41, of Worsley Road, who uses the A580 to get to work, said: "It's out of order. I only noticed it from the other side of the road. Like most drivers, I'm not perfect all the time, but at least I try to abide by the law."

And Joan Walsh, 65, who lives off the East Lancs Road, said: "It's sneaky.

"We use this road a lot. I'm a safe driver so I wouldn't want to think I'm being caught out."

Sean Corker, spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, said: "Cameras are supposed to be a deterrent.

"That was the reason given for bringing them in.

"If people go about hiding them then they can't act as a deterrent. They just become another way of raising revenue."

If they jump red lights and it's a set of lights where this would be extremely dangerous then good then they deserve it.

Red light camera's smartly positioned shouldn't need to be sign posted nor clearly seen.

Under current government rules, a red-light camera DOES NOT have to be clearly visible to the motorist. A camera that checks for speeding DOES.

Whilst I am against speed cameras I generally don't have a problem with red light cameras.

Hiya Wildy

Been browsing on that site you both keep posting to. The red light cam you are thinking of is the Mosley Common one. (Also A572 which meanders through Swinton to Worsley towards Wigan. ) That's OK. As is the A575 one.


This one's at what's known locally as "Critchley's Corner". This is the one where the woman crossed in front of the lorry as she ran for the Number 12/26 stop up beyond the garage towards the A6 Manchester Road.

These lights? I honestly cannot say they are as "sharp" as the Mosley Common ones where the accidents have happened. The Lancs is 60 mph from M61 to the "Greyhound" at Leigh whereas it's 50 mph (from M61 to Manchester - and then from M61 to Leigh where it becomes NSL dual) at Critchley's - just past the speed cam outside the school which has its A580 gate permanently locked anyway.. but that does not stop kids walking along the A580 pavements all the same. No child from Moorside Comp (once Secondary School) has ever been killed on this road by the way in its entire history to date. My elderly neighbour (now 75 years) used to teach at this school. Its main claim to fame is that Ryan Giggs is an old boy. Decent school with decent kids in all reality.

Should re-iterate.. all kids are basically decent kids. It's a case of really inter-acting with them properly. How can I say it.. "you roll with their sense of fun and channel it positively - making sure that there is positive learning and teaching occurring all the time." I make this point as I have given you "carte blanche" to post this e-mail to you on that "decadent site of fun loving car enthusiasts" .

I teach. My hobby if you like is "teaching". I live most for my job and protesting over planned assaults on my bank balance for just getting to work here is why I'm really so angry about the planned congestion charge for this area.


This camera is a speed cam as well as a red light one. The sign clearly says speed and traffic light camera on the approach. Again it follows close on the lights just beyond the footbridge in the Manchester press I mailed up to you guys yesterday. We are talking of - say - roughly 100 metres between these lights and it's a right bottleneck in rush hour homeward bound from Manchester really. The "jumpers" have really just changed up into fourth gear when these lights change on them and sometimes I think many go through to avoid a rear ender fender bender to be honest with you.


However, like all the junctions on the Lancs .. it's wide. Jumping the reds can be seriously dangerous here. There are filters for the right turn traffic from the Lancs .. but these are in synch with the Lancs lights.. changing when the through A580 change to red.


Apart from the width.. I would say that these lights are not any more a danger than any other set of lights on the Lancs to the vulnerable road user. This is one mean fast road in reality. Locals treat with respect.

I know for fact though that idiots are in abundance.

Do I see cyclists jumping the reds?

Oh yes.

It irks me to be honest.

The junction's just too wide to justify this. I admit I've jumped a red once in central Bolton on my bike but I justify this because my bike's braking distance is not as good as my car's. I just could not have stopped in time and the junction was short anyway as they usually are in town centres. I think I give you your answer as to why cyclists may choose to continue when the lights change so suddenly on them. when in town. I could not possibly have stopped on the one I jumped to be honest on Chorley Old Road.

DO I support the move to make it 50 mph as far as Leigh? It's a loaded question, my dear Wildy. This road from Critchley to Manchester was 40 mph .. and remained 40 mph when they engineered the A6 into it at "Irlam o' th' Heights" into Salford's Crescent. It became 50 mph in 1977 as I understand. But at Critchley's - it's fairly residential. I would not like to live in those semis .. nice as they are on the eye here. Not with my kids - and I have taught them to your standards too - my dear sister-in-law!

Ellenbrook where young Lauren died has no cam .. but they changed the lights' sequence and I think for the better there as it seems to give a longer crossing time for pedestrians.


Do I support this red light cam? I think the plainly visible one they had for years has proven itself to be tested, tried and true. I think all locals/non locals have been careful and vigilant. The incident with the lorry was a one- off. She was running for a bus. He was high up in his cab. He just did not see her. Her family accept this. The police and the coroner accepted this. I hear the lorry driver was horror stricken too.

No charge was ever brought against him and I know the family concerned too. They are not blaming anyone for the accident either. They are salt of the earth types and very respected locally too. Everyone misses the deceased. She was just lovely.

Not been down the Lancs to the Critchley junction as yet. Seldom drive into Manchester. Nightmare to park and quite frankly I find the train's cheap day return quite good value - if you plan the times properly.

But I sometimes drive home the "scenic" way if there's a major hold-up on the M60 which seems to be daily disaster morning, noon and night these days. The scenic way means driving over the little toll bridge, through Glazebrook/Culcheth up to the Lancs at Leigh. When I approach Worsley.. I come across the traffic light cams at the A572 where it crosses the Lancs again on its way to Wigan. In fact, it is under Wigan Council at this point.

Junction has been scene of a couple of nasties in the past. It has had a red light cam on each side for the past 17 years to my knowledge - just like the one lower down at its Critchley crossing. (The ones at the A575 in-between these junctions is wide, but the crunches to me have had more to do with right turners into the Lancs from the A575 under-estimating the speed on-coming traffic crossing the Lancs and not from the A580 traffic. I am saying this as if you post up what I am saying - am trying to give as fair an idea of A580 as possible in that the red light cams are at three of the main junctions from the Worsley/Ellenbrook/Wigan A572 boundary down to the A572/Worsley/Swinton boundary. Not a road then on which to hoon it up to the traffic lights! )

However, at the Mosley Common A572 junction - which also has a fairly tight change sequence and I have noted all the lights have changed ever so slightly so as to create congestion build-up and ping the odd driver on a tight change - they have also changed ONE of the cams to a Redspeed/Monitron type on the Manchester bound side only.

This camera is not just a red light cam but a speed cam one as there are the Gatso type markings to calculate the speed newly painted across the junction

The cam is a lot taller but still very visible unlike its "brother" further down the Lancs at the other A572 junction.

I have not driven down that way to check if the same lines are painted at the other junction .. but if this is a speed cam as well as a redlight cam and if speed cams have to be visible.. then this red light cam should not then be hidden from view.

In any case - I think all cams should be visible if the whole point of them is to make people aware of complying to speed limits. Given I was once shunted up the rear end by some one trying to beat the lights and who did not take into account that the car in front of him was actually slowing to stop at the amber setting - I would be very happy to have a traffic light cam on every flipping traffic light in the land as this is where the dangers lie and not in some blipping over a speed limit on an empty road.

Having said that.. I am the "James May" type in this family. I like life in the "slow lane" and I seem to arrive at the same time as the idiots who overtake me.

However, I have another major rant which I want you to post up for discussion.