Safe Speed Forums

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... e_m60.html


What makes this even worse is that the 50 mph limit was extended last year for about half a mile north of the actual sharp bend, so you will have half a mile of straight 3-lane motorway with a SPECS-controlled 50 limit.

And how will this stop people being hit who have stopped in the outside lane?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Will the cameras be clockwise only, or in both directions?

Was the limit only extended clockwise, or was it extended both ways?

Clockwise only. It is still a 70 limit anticlockwise, although as that section includes the notorious right-hand entry sliproad at Junction 25, you do wonder whether that might be reduced too at some time in the future


The limit was extended about half a mile to the north, towards Junction 24, but the original southern boundary remains.

I believe all four of the deaths mentioned in the article occurred after the original 50mph limit was introduced. One was believed to travelling in excess of 70; another hit a car stationary in lane 3 after hitting the central reservation on an otherwise empty motorway. I recall one involving a car full of youngsters returning from an all-night rave in Wigan - draw your own conclusions...

The extended limit was the result a campaign by the mother of one of the victims to get people to slow down in plenty of time for the bend. "Young people will drive above the limit, there needs to be much more warning" is a (rough) quote of hers in the paper at the time.

No doubt when RTTM delivers three years free of fatalities it will be claimed as a great success for cameras.

The bend is unusually tight for the motorway network but can easily be driven at 70 if you know what you're doing. I see no need for anything more than a prominent advisory limit.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

You recall correctly. I think I posted up the above incidents as they appeared in the "MEN" as well . I seem to recall that the driver who hit the statonary car had been a little drowsy as well per the initial story as it appeared in the MEN.

As for that slip road at J25.. I could understand the SPECS and a reduced limit there.. but not where this is reported to be.

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I drive this daily - the extended 50mph is stupid! For those who know the motorway well (eg myself) it is pointless as we know exactly where the sharp bend is, and know exactly how to handle it (and yes I've taken it quite comfortably at 70mph on the inside). And for those who don't know the road - they'll see the 50mph limit, possibly slow down but after driving a few hundred yards with no sign of a hazard, will start to think it's a pointless limit (which it is!) and ignore it.

I've also noticed since the psychedelic 50mph VAS went up, drivers have been braking harshly and creating a hazard unnecessarily. I don't understand why they can't just put up a sign saying something like "Caution, sharp bend x yards ahead. Slow"?

The other thing that irks me about this section is you have the 50mph limit for half a mile before the bend on good quality 3-lane motorway. However, after the bend when it reverts to 70 between J26 and J1 I find this stretch far more dangerous and uncomfortable - narrow lanes, high traffic volume and high concentration of slip-roads. I rarely get above 65 along this bit.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

Well, Mike (Nemesis)

I'm afraid common sense is no longer common, (was it ever common !), and in fact is almost non-existent in central and local government, and does not exist at all in the Cash Camera partnerships. If common sense was common, I'm sure we'd all be a lot better off, and safer too.

Essentially we are being governed by a set of badly programmed robots; robots have no humanity and no sense of morals, ethics, manners etc. I'd put them in the crusher !!

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

Another thought just occurred.......are SPECS still only type-approved to monitor one lane at a time? So anyone can evade them by switching lanes part-way through? If so, then installing them here could be very dangerous - anyone here who knows this area I'm sure will agree that this is not a section of motorway where switching lanes is easy (and you also tend to get a lot of annoying middle-lane sitters here). So what happens when everyone learns about this and starts manouvering all over the place for no other reason other than to avoid the cameras? This is the technique I've been employing through the current 40mph SPECS-enforced roadworks from J1-J4 - even when I know I've been at 40 or below all the way. I just do not trust the technology!

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

I read in the Telegraph motoring section that SPECS could be easily fooled by simply entering and leaving the SPECS zone in different lanes??

Yes, AFAIK. However don't rely on it, you'll never know when they will get approval for multilane monitoring - until you get several NIPS in one go.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I rather think we will hear about it IF approval is obtained for 'multi lane' monitoring.

But I'm more worried about cross-connected pairs to catch the growing number of lane changers. I don't believe that there's anything to stop them monitoring from L1 in camera group A to L2 in camera group B and so on.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I've had the same thought Paul, but I dismissed it fairly quickly. I have observed behavior through multi-lane SPECS controlled areas and most people seem content to sit in one lane at the speed limit for the duration.

I know 'they' have done some daft things, but to try to second-guess drivers, which pairs they will change lanes between and to which lane etc, is a pretty wild gamble to catch just one or two people.

The cameras have actually been installed today, but as the sign saying "Average Speed Check" is still greyed out I assume they're not operational yet.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I've started to see folk change lane after every SPECS gantry. I don't know how widespread this behaviour will become.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If that sort of behaviour starts to become common-place on this particular bend then believe me, it will make it a hell of a lot more dangerous.

Saw them positioning these evil yellow vultures yesterday evening. I'm predicting it will make this corner at best, more congested, but have a worrying feeling it will make it far more dangerous. Don't know what everyone else thinks but I find there's a distinct feeling of 'vehicle control removed from driver' when going through SPECS systems

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

I have to admit that I do it.

I do stick as closely to the limit as I dare but I'll still swap lanes if space allows.

Is it right...probably not but I am only human!

It's awful in the M1 J8-10 roadworks at the moment. Where the sliproads join at J9 and 10, I've seen several near misses with traffic merging, mainly because everyone on the mainline is stuck at exactly 40 mph and nobody is willing to speed up or slow down to let people merge in the way that they would do in normal motorway conditions. Also, because of the constant 40 mph stream of traffic, lane 2 rarely has a gap in it for people to pull over into from lane 1 to allow other traffic to join.

It feels like driving in fog to me. I can't quite put my finger on it. But we tried before in a brainstorming topic: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9825

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I noticed these cameras on the Gantry last night going to work (The 30th March) Does any one know when the cameras went live as most of the week i have been going with the flow of the traffic which is 60mph +

AFAIK they have not been turned on yet. I would expect the grey paint to be removed from the "Average Speed Check" sign before this happens.

Also shouldn't SPECS cameras have yellow or orange backing boards? - the ones further on in the roadworks certainly do.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Ah, Thats what i thought. They still need a plate behind them.
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