Safe Speed Forums

Ah! Apologies if I misunderstood...

I thought you meant that in a percentage of cases no prior opinion was formed at all and that you were therefore relying entirely on the equipment. I accept your explanation that in some cases the process is simply quicker than in others.

It is interesting what you say about your ability to judge speeds so finely, though this in itself raises another awkward question I fear...

If camera operators can gain this degree of skill fairly easily, and judge to within a couple of mph how fast approaching vehicles are travelling, how come they continually "ping" vehicles that are travelling at or below the limit?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

If camera operators can gain this degree of skill fairly easily, and judge to within a couple of mph how fast approaching vehicles are travelling, how come they continually "ping" vehicles that are travelling at or below the limit?

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now retired

If camera operators can gain this degree of skill fairly easily, and judge to within a couple of mph how fast approaching vehicles are travelling, how come they continually "ping" vehicles that are travelling at or below the limit?


at various sites you get quickly tuned in to traffic speed, i tend to focus
on a point ie lampost so say after an initial 10 logs (which is about the time it takes to get settled in) so anything coming past this point faster than the norm draws attention,

i know where you are coming from with the muliple ping tapes why they do it, im sorry i dont know

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now retired

I had to laugh at this very point last weekend.

I was helping out with the running of our local rally in Grizedale Forest. As part of the results team at one point I spent an hour nipping backwards and forwards through Coniston Village to collect and deliver time cards from the service area and rally HQ.

As you come out of the village there is a very inviting straight stretch of road but still in the 30 limit. Because of the rally the local Police had turned out and were perched at the end of this straight with a radar gun. (I have to say I actually totally agree with a bit of visible policing like this, as it's actually good PR for the sport when everyone takes notice, although I'd have been happier still if they'd actually gone to the town centre where speeding cars could have caused a problem with peds.)

Anyway, the point was that I must have driven past this spot a dozen times over the next hour or so, and on each occasion I carefully traversed the whole straight with my cruise control latched at exactly 30mph. And on each occasion the PC got "missile lock" on me the instant I hove into view and kept it there until I passed.

After about 10 such efforst it was becoming really difficult not to give in to the temptation to pull over and have a little word about "prior opinion"...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Back to this 'prior opinion' thing.

Now I don't know whether you (CO) are a serving Police Officer or not (its actually not important and I don't want to be personal anyway).

But a high percentage of Camera operators are not.

My understanding is that civilian camera operators are not allowed to form a prior opinion or at least prior opinion is not admissible as evidence.

anyone like to comment?

no problems civil engineer

i stated that i was a civilian

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now retired

I thought I remembered you saying but didn't want to trust my memory.

I hear what you're saying and I have no comment about your ability to 'spot' or form a 'prior opinion' as to the speed of a vehicle.

My understanding is however, that only a serving police officer's prior opinion is admissible in court.

Now I know you have given evidence in court but its my belief that the magistrates were either incorrect or the defence lawyer wasn't on the ball.

Next Case --

"M'LUD, I am employed as a millkman by the Council Dairies and travel this road daily , and have extensive knowledge of the humps , bumps and draincovers in this road.On the morning in question i had delivered two pints of goldtop to 22 when i spotted the car belonging to the accused driving along the road.He was going very fast, passing two drainhole covers in 22.5 seconds( as per my dairy calibrated watch, last calbrated in 1966)

Last week the case was thrown out ---next week - who knows -as the milkman gets issued with a LTI 20/20


( Now fiction - next time - who knows??/)

A happy medium - one who has been given the Lottery /football pools/ results from the other side and has placed a winning bet.
All others are waiting.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

what the f##k are you on about

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now retired

my apologys milkman


ernie the fastest milkman in the west

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now retired

I also believe that only a Police officer is authorised to give a prior opinion of speed. It's not about ability, it's about legislators sensibly putting in place a basic test of ability. Without that test any two members of the public could cause a conviction for speeding based on nothing but malice.

Thinks: Perhaps we should test it from the other side? Should we get together and arrange for two members of the public to submit opinion evidence of speeding? Once it is thrown out at a high enough court we have the required judgment.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It's not "policemen" who can form an expert opinion on speed, it's TRAFPOL only.
The beat plod is allowed to state his expert opinion in only ONE case, i.e. whether in their opinion someone was drunk.

CO - At the moment camera ops are forming prior opinions , little old ladies and ( for all we know ) the WRI are sitting round cornors with speed guns.

This was a sarcastic look at the next stage - the public ( who are as qualified in law as a cam op, who is not a police officer, and i believe now it is a trafpol) forming prior opinnions - i used a milkman as an example.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Won't suprise me to find that Stavros (who runs the Olympic Kebab Bar, 22 The High Street) is also allowed to give his expert opinion on a vehicle's speed, as cooking fast food is all about timing, and is therefore parallel- almost identical, in fact, as long as it helps the prosecution.

[quote="SafeSpeedquote]



Thinks: Perhaps we should test it from the other side? Should we get together and arrange for two members of the public to submit opinion evidence of speeding? Once it is thrown out at a high enough court we have the required judgment.[/quote]

Well, i've suggested a milkman, and Biker has suggested Stravos ( not that bloke with the planes, i hope , who runs round in an orange Smart car)

Now an interesting turn, a police officer turns up when needed
lost the link at the moment ,trying to find it.
Found it -
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... c&start=20

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Something I was taught in the RAF it is no use you become a casualty or causing a casualty whilst attempting a rescue sortie, have had had too abort three sorties in my time (fuel state, weather and weather), likewise I would have thought that emergency services crew are taught the same, so if the training is up to sratch and the crews are not balls to the wall throwing all out of the window, why do we need these 'guidelines' ???

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

It's not just the professionals that get told that. When I used to have a general first aid certificate from the Red Cross and then St. Johns. On all the courses I did and the 3 yearly renewals they always said to 'look first and decide if it save to approach', as your no use to anyone if you hurt yourself.

Serious issue for rural fire teams where many crews now have a 'first responder' (someone trained in basic life support, usually with idiot proof defibrillator issued). Fire engine is often first on scene. Every second counts as you might imagine...

This heightens the need for fire crews to get where they need to go fast.

If you can train & trust a fireman to drive at 49% over posted limit why can't you trust them to drive at 51% over limit?