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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:21 
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Daily Telegraph

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Under 12s in your car must have safety seats
By David Derbyshire Consumer Affairs Editor
(Filed: 02/09/2006)

About two million car seats and booster cushions will have to be bought by parents to meet new child safety rules and to avoid fines up to £500.

From Sept 18 almost every child under 12 will need to use an approved child restraint while travelling in a car. Parents who refuse to co-operate, or who are unable to persuade children to sit on a booster seat, will face fines.

The Government says the changes will prevent 2,000 child injuries and deaths every year. But critics believe the rules may be difficult to enforce and that parents inevitably will find themselves breaking the law.

The regulations are the biggest changes to motoring laws in more than two decades.

At present, children are required to use suitable child restraints "if available". If one is not fitted, they can use an adult belt. Many parents succumb to pressure from their children and abandon child seats when they reach school age.

Road safety campaigners say adult seat belts can inflict terrible injuries on children. Belts designed to pull against the pelvic bones of adults dig deep into the soft tissues of children, while chest straps can cut into their necks.

After Sept 18 children aged two or less can travel in a car only with a European Union safety approved child seat.

From their third birthday, they must use a child restraint in the rear seats if the car has seat belts. The only exceptions are for emergency journeys, travelling in a licensed taxi or if the car has two child seats and there is no room for a third. In the front seat, a child seat must always be used.

The rules cover children until they reach the age of 12 or are 4ft 5in (1.35m) tall. Police say they are unlikely to take action in the first few months except against parents who persistently flout regulations.

Andrew Howard, the head of road safety at the AA Motoring Trust, welcomed the changes, but said their success depended on how sensibly they were enforced by police and courts. "It is hard to argue against a change that will make children safer," he said. "But every parent is going to find themselves in a position where they will break the new rules at some point."

Parents who give other children lifts to school will need to start planning their journeys carefully, he said.

Halfords said the industry expects to sell up to two million child seats and booster seats before the changes. But the market could be much higher.

The Office for National Statistics said there are 4.4 million children aged six to 11.

Restraints range from simple £10 polystyrene booster seats to fully adjustable seats from about £50.

"It is really important to us that we have got the right offer and we have spent a lot of time and effort on promotional campaigns," said a spokesman for Halfords.

The Department for Transport said it has spent about £500,000 promoting the rules. "There is a common sense aspect," a spokesman said. "If people are in doubt, lots of stores have experts who can advise them."

Parents can also seek advice from the Think road safety website.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:07 
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Typical of this government. Those who take safety seriously are already taking the necessary precautions. Those who don't (and a large proportion of the educated and relatively well-off parents who drive their children to my local schools are included here ) will ignore this law. There will be minimal or no enforcement of the law as with mobile phone use whilst driving so why bother ?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:56 
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must say not having kids I don't pay attention to these things but I had a friend visiting from Oz last week and he commented on how slack people here seem to be with regards to appropriately securing children within cars.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 14:00 
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Yes, a nice rope round the neck should do. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 14:19 
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Whatever happened to 6 squeezed onto the back seat of a Ford Cortina? :lol:

How the hell did we all survive childhood? No wonder kids do daft stuff living in such a risk adverse society. Im glad Im not growing up now.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 14:37 
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malcolmw wrote:
Yes, a nice rope round the neck should do. :)
:lol: you read my mind :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:25 
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Last edited by FJSRiDER on Wed Oct 04, 2006 15:01, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 00:23 
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Why do under 12's need a booster seat? So they can see over the steering wheel or to stop them reaching the pedals? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 01:21 
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I had a situation at the bank holiday weekend and I don't expect there would be any way I could have easily not broken this law.
On the friday I learnt that I would be going on a trip (Dorset to Dorset via the middle of London...) and I would be required to take one or more people. This could be one adult, a 12 year old, a 10 year old and/or an 8/9 year old. I didn't know which or how many. (that was to be decided on the day depending on people's mood) Turned out I had the 12 and 10 year olds. So would this be "unexpected nesessecety"? Or would I be expeced to someone go out and buy a 'child seat' of some kind on the saturday just in case? Of course I could have had the 8/9 year old as well... (and I might have been busy, I was busy on the sunday so couldn't go shoopping then!)
This was the first time I've ever had an 'under 12' in my car ever and if it happens again it probably wouldn't be more than once a year.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:10 
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Ziltro wrote:
I had a situation at the bank holiday weekend and I don't expect there would be any way I could have easily not broken this law.

would you be asking the same question if you rode a motorcycle or would you have asked them to bring along their own safety equipment?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 13:47 
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johnsher wrote:
Ziltro wrote:
I had a situation at the bank holiday weekend and I don't expect there would be any way I could have easily not broken this law.

would you be asking the same question if you rode a motorcycle or would you have asked them to bring along their own safety equipment?

Trying to imagine how putting a booster seat on a motorbike would make things safer for anyone... :lol:
I suppose I could have done that but I wouldn't have thought of it. They didn't arrive with any.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 14:01 
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Quote:
would you be asking the same question if you rode a motorcycle or would you have asked them to bring along their own safety equipment?


That is why most people in the UK don't own a motorbike... they are not aqdaptable.

However, If you see a friend in town and it is raining you cannot offer them and thier children a lift home any more. you cannot drop them off at the park and ask grandma to pick them up because the booster seats are all in your car. You cannot carry three booster seats and a buggy and three kids all day!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 14:49 
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anton wrote:
However, If you see a friend in town and it is raining you cannot offer them and thier children a lift home any more.

ok, then another question. Presuming that you're driving a modern vehicle, do you insist that your passengers wear seatbelts? If you were carrying a baby would you let the mother hold onto it or would you expect it to be in a capsule?
If so then why should children too old for capsules and too young for adult belts travel without adequate protection?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 15:00 
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Under 12s in your car must have safety seats

Does that apply regardless of how tall the child is, and the fact that an adult seatbelt fits an 8 year old perfectly well?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 18:28 
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anton wrote:
However, If you see a friend in town and it is raining you cannot offer them and thier children a lift home any more.

Would that not be covered by the "unexpected nessecety" exception?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 18:34 
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Gixxer wrote:
Does that apply regardless of how tall the child is, and the fact that an adult seatbelt fits an 8 year old perfectly well?


Quote:
The rules cover children until they reach the age of 12 or are 4ft 5in (1.35m) tall.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 18:41 
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Ziltro wrote:
anton wrote:
However, If you see a friend in town and it is raining you cannot offer them and thier children a lift home any more.

Would that not be covered by the "unexpected nessecety" exception?


Common sense would suggest yes. However, common sense as applied by people with one eye on the amount of profit they can make from dishing out fines would suggest no - after all, giving someone a lift home just because it's raining isn't a necessity, is it... They can still get home on foot/by bus/however else they'd planned to get home in the first place, and if they end up soaked to the skin and chilled to the bone then that's neither here nor there - the important thing is that they were able to complete their journey without need of your car, thus the use of your car isn't necessary, thus it wouldn't have been an unexpected necessity to give them a lift, thus if we see you doing it that'll be £500 please.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 20:45 
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I wonder if this will lead to an increase in blacked out windows?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 13:32 
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may be that's why so many of the 'premium SUVs' already have them, in anticipation of this?

Even as someone with no kids, I can see it's an 'anticommonsense' law.
people won't be able to give lifts,
won't be able to go on trips without major inconvenience if it's not the parents car.(all those grandparents etc, will have to buy the seats...),
people with old cars will seemingly automatically be committing an offence,
kids wont' be able to travel in their dad's/mum's sports car anymore (cos the seat won't fit onto a 'bucket' seat.
taxi trips will be out, because they won't put them in and won't store in the boot.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 13:56 
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stackmonkey wrote:
taxi trips will be out, because they won't put them in and won't store in the boot.

Licenced Taxis are exempt.

I would presume that necessity would be covered by the need to accompany children at all times. If you needed to collect a pre-teen child letting them walk alone wouldn't be an option.

I'm not sure where I stand on the new law TBH. Our two are aged 6 and 7 and we've been noticing that increasing numbers of their friends have stopped using booster seats as they wrongly believe they are big enough not to need them. Meanwhile we know others who have simply never bothered.

In general I'm a believer in personal freedom and liberty, but it's a bit different with children. On that basis this might save a few kids from the stupidity and / or laziness of their parents, and the exemptions it grants (if applied sensibly) will provide enough leeway to make it workable.

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