Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Jun 02, 2026 00:39

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 09:09 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
Daily Mail

Quote:
Father of teenage girl killed in crash warns 'driving tests are a waste of time'

By PAUL SIMS
Last updated at 22:00pm on 8th November 2006

The father of a teenage girl killed along with three friends in a car crash fought back tears as he made an impassioned plea for a radical overhaul of the driving test.

Louise Jones and best friends Kayleigh Parry, 16, Katie Roberts and Danielle Caswell, both 15, were squeezed into the back of a car when it careered off an isolated mountain road.

The 17-year-old driver, who had only passed his test three days before the accident, lost control of the Vauxhall Corsa when it skidded on ice and crashed into moorland in South Wales.

He and a male passenger, also 17, survived the horrific crash on the dangerous B4560 near Ebbw Vale, Gwent, and have since been released from hospital.

Terry Jones spoke movingly of his 'beautiful' 16-year-old daughter before calling for tighter controls on learner drivers.

"In my opinion, driving tests today are a total waste of time," he said.

"The driving test as it stands now is not worth the paper it is written on. It's a complete joke.

"It's crazy that teenagers can take an intensive course over the same route where they sit their driving test. They can then take to the roads without having instruction on how to drive on motorways or other types of road.

"The tests should be a lot tougher and then new drivers should be carefully monitored after they have passed."

The father-of-three said learner drivers should be expected to clock up 200 hours of lessons, followed by 100 hours of driving without passengers before they are allowed to take a test.

He added: "Their movements should be logged by experienced instructors until they have clocked up the 300 hours.

"The instruction should be as stringent as it is for airline pilots because at the moment kids can pass their tests in five days and jump into the most powerful cars in the road."

The 56-year-old fruit and veg wholesaler claimed he was sure the teenager driving the car was "showing off" when it crashed but insisted he did not blame him for his daughter's death.

Dyfed Powys Police said detectives would be interviewing both boys about the crash, including the speed the car was going and the fact it was overloaded.

They were A-level students at the 800-pupil Glyncoed Comprehensive School in Ebbw Vale, where the girls were due to take their GCSEs next summer.

Mr Jones, who was accompanied by his wife Georgina and their son Christopher, also denied reports that girls had been drinking on the night of the tragedy.

His plea for stricter controls comes just days after the House of Commons Transport Select Committee said it would look at raising the driving age to 18 in an effort to cut the carnage caused by young, rogue drivers.

Motoring groups and road safety campaigners have welcomed the move which was announced after a campaign by the Daily Mail to raise the minimum age for a full licence.

Among the changes being considered include new pre-test requirements such as a minimum number of hours or miles driving, or a minimum period between obtaining a provisional licence and taking the test.

A coalition of insurance, motoring and road safety groups spearheaded by the Association of British Insurers believes raising the L-test age could cut road deaths by 1,000 each year.

According to statistics drivers aged 17 to 19 are ten times more likely to have an accident than those aged over 30. Many are also uninsured, untaxed, and driving cars without an MoT.

And whilst men aged 17 to 20 account for just 3 per cent of the driving population, they represent 33 per cent of convictions for dangerous driving.

The Government estimates that nearly 38,800 people are killed or injured each year in collisions involving at least one driver with less than two years' post-test experience.

Cathy Keeler, head of campaigns at road safety charity Brake, said: "The Government must tackle road death and injury involving young people by introducing a system of graduated driver licensing.

"This would involve a minimum period of learning to drive, followed by a provisional licence period where newly-qualified drivers have restrictions placed upon them, such as night-time driving curfews and limits on numbers of passengers."

An inquest into the latest tragedy has been opened and adjourned.

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 09:41 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19
Posts: 1795
The lad skidded on ice. I doubt many more experienced drivers would have faired much better. :(

I think driving tests should actually be made easier so that more people are legal and you can then have the equivalent of the motorcycling training to encourage people to keep learning. If they don't then they should face restrictions eg no night driving, no passengers until they pass the second part. Incentives work better than punishments. Perhaps group lessons should be arranged so that a couple of people learn together to keep costs down and then they can learn from each other's mistakes as well as their own for those that find the cost of tuition onerous. Unfortunately there are no traffic police to enforce any of these ideas.

The emphasis should also change from blind rule following to making them concentrate on having a good attitutude, driving safely, defensively and not having an accident.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:16 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
At the end of the day we all start off learning, even when you’ve passed your test you’re still learning and always will be until you can’t drive any longer. We’ve all been there and no doubt even the father of the teenage girl has been there. Road conditions change all the time. It would also depend on what time of the year you take your lessons, you could take them during the summer months and even pass your test before the winter, in which case you would have had no experience of winter driving.

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 01:04 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Quote:
The 17-year-old driver, who had only passed his test three days before the accident, lost control of the Vauxhall Corsa when it skidded on ice and crashed into moorland in South Wales.


"IT SKIDDED ON ICE " --- before the experts rush in , how many of us meet these conditions - i get out each year into an empty car park and have my first skid WHEN I WANT TO HAVE IT ( because i remember my first one - all alone on a highland road, 360 degrees , a month after my test,(Caused by wrong tyre fittment) ,and i need to keep my hand in , just in case )- this kid had his when he least expected it - a nasty by all accounts.

Perhaps skid pan training should be compulsary - or just the theory - or more attention paid to how to drive to avoid them ???


But then , as i said elsewhere - in days of old ,before production line driVer training - someone would have taught him what to do in a skid, as ice happens EVERY YEAR.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:32 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 15:43
Posts: 2416
botach wrote:
But then , as i said elsewhere - in days of old ,before production line driVer training - someone would have taught him what to do in a skid, as ice happens EVERY YEAR.

From what I remember of my lessons any discussion of what to do when skidding was pretty rudimentary. Probably just a brief explanation about what to do if front/rear wheel drive and move on. Do they not bother at all anymore then, or is it being covered in the theory part of the test? Not sure how much use it'd be without a skid pan to put the theory into practice, which in turn is going to cost money. And TPTB are not exactly renowned for their profligate expenditure on quality driver training, are they? Given the option of teaching on a skid pan or whacking up some more cameras I reckon I can guess which way they'd jump. And as you said, in this case the skid was on ice. For all we know all four wheels had caught ice and were sliding, and all I can think of to do in that situation is hope that I get some grip back before hitting anything. I skidded on some diesel once and nothing I did with the wheel made any difference.

Granted, the car was overloaded, which wouldn't have helped and also means at least one person without a seatbelt, possibly even no seatbelts correctly worn in the back. I can't help but wonder if the poor girl who died was unrestrained. This is a bit of a bugbear of mine when working. There's a big plate on the back of the taxi that says "licensed to carry 7". Several times I've had groups of 8 or 9 wanting to squeeze in to save the price of a second cab, and usually called me a jobsworth when I've refused. Maybe I am, since I suspect it could well cost me my Hackney licence. I'm also pretty damn sure it would invalidate the insurance, to say nothing of the possible consequences should the worst happen. Anyhow, I digress. My point is that while the driver inevitably bears most responsibility for driving with too many people in the vehicle, unless he's forced them all in at gunpoint the passengers must also bear some responibility for getting into an overloaded car in the first place. There were 6 young people in this car, any one of whom could have and should have refused to get in/get going.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 22:55 
Offline
User

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 21:27
Posts: 247
Location: Near Stockport
Some countries require new drivers to display P plates. That could be considered in this country.

_________________
Brian


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:49 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:30
Posts: 2053
Location: South Wales (Roving all UK)
I've never understood how 'P' plates will help, how would they have helped here?

Clarkson alluded to this in his latest top gear column, the problem is that being 17 is pretty dangerous!

The only answer can only be more rigorous training. IN THE CAR!! Not on a touch screen having read multiple choice books!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:44 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
In North America (well Canada at least in my experience) skid training is a compulsory aspect of driving training. This tragedy highlights the fact that our current driving syllabus is not equipping young drivers with all the tools they need to cope on our roads. Thats just dumb!

I agree with the girl's father to a point, though I think 300 hours is a little excessive! 300 hours flying is enough to earn your RAF pilot's wings!

A more useful comparison with flying, I feel, is the need to maintain currency in the various skills associated with driving. As botach alluded to, this could involve an annual currency for skidding, taken around Sep, in order to be allowed to drive during the period Oct-Feb. Night driving currency could perhaps be expected to be renewed every 2-3 years, and so on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 02:51 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 01:42
Posts: 686
Quote:
"This would involve a minimum period of learning to drive, followed by a provisional licence period where newly-qualified drivers have restrictions placed upon them, such as night-time driving curfews and limits on numbers of passengers."


I'm not convinced that a night-time curfew would work (since how can one gain experience of night-time driving without experience) but a limit on the number of passengers for new drivers is a good idea, under the principle of damage limitation. It would be a tricky one to enforce though.

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 02:55 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 01:42
Posts: 686
Quote:
According to statistics drivers aged 17 to 19 are ten times more likely to have an accident than those aged over 30


We need to be careful what we read into statistics like this. Could 17-19 year olds just be more prone to accidents because of lack of experience, rather than immaturity? In other words, if we raised the minimum age for a full licence to 18, we would simply see drivers aged 18-20 being ten times more likely to have an accident than those aged over 31...

Quote:
"This would involve a minimum period of learning to drive, followed by a provisional licence period where newly-qualified drivers have restrictions placed upon them, such as night-time driving curfews and limits on numbers of passengers."


I'm not convinced that a night-time curfew would work (since how can one gain experience of night-time driving without experience) but a limit on the number of passengers for new drivers is a good idea, under the principle of damage limitation. It would be a tricky one to enforce though.

Quote:
The tests should be a lot tougher ...

.....Many are also uninsured, untaxed, and driving cars without an MoT.


By making the test tougher to pass, we would most likely increase the number of unlicensed drivers on the roads. Some road safety education is better than none.

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 22:03 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Quote:
Gatsobait

Several times I've had groups of 8 or 9 wanting to squeeze in to save the price of a second cab, and usually called me a jobsworth when I've refused.


Ah- been there - but then we know the consequences - they don't , and when the driver is pressed and objects he is overridden by protests - you on the other hand only have to pick up mike and ask controller to state "for benefit of passengers, capacity of conveyance" ---they listen to that - doubtful if they'd listen to driver otherwise.(especially on Saturday nights)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.113s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]