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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 09:45 
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There have been a few adverse comments about vans parked outside other people's houses overnight. This may reduce soon due to a change in the tax laws.

As from 2007, the drivers of vans allowed to take them home (and occasionally use them for private purposes) will see a rise in the notional taxable benefit from this use rise from the current £350 p.a. to £3,000 p.a. The actual tax payable will, typically, go up from £80 p.a. to £660 p.a.

Do people think this is good or bad?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:46 
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It means I'll either have to change job (in a very small industry) or move house (to a far more expensive area).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:07 
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malcolmw wrote:
There have been a few adverse comments about vans parked outside other people's houses overnight. This may reduce soon due to a change in the tax laws.

As from 2007, the drivers of vans allowed to take them home (and occasionally use them for private purposes) will see a rise in the notional taxable benefit from this use rise from the current £350 p.a. to £3,000 p.a. The actual tax payable will, typically, go up from £80 p.a. to £660 p.a.

Do people think this is good or bad?


I'm guessing this is a reaction to the loophole that saw an explosion of the number of double-cab pickup trucks being used as company cars?

This £3000 p.a. is still a long way short of the tax that company car users pay.

Good or bad? I doubt it will reduce the number of vans parked in residential streets by a huge amount. What else could be done - taxation based on personal mileage? I guess that would be unpopular too, but probably the most fair solution.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 15:29 
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handy wrote:
This £3000 p.a. is still a long way short of the tax that company car users pay.

Depends on the car. Smaller cars with low CO2 emissions would have a lower taxable benefit - the taxable benefit on a £12000 car with emissions under 140 g/km would be £1800 p.a.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 17:29 
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Quite. My Mondeo's taxable benefit is around £3200.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 18:15 
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PeterE wrote:
Smaller cars with low CO2 emissions would have a lower taxable benefit - the taxable benefit on a £12000 car with emissions under 140 g/km would be £1800 p.a.


Maybe aplicable if you are a home help or social worker but then what self respecting rep would want to do 50,000 miles a year in one of those... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 18:32 
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Gizmo wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Smaller cars with low CO2 emissions would have a lower taxable benefit - the taxable benefit on a £12000 car with emissions under 140 g/km would be £1800 p.a.

Maybe aplicable if you are a home help or social worker but then what self respecting rep would want to do 50,000 miles a year in one of those... :lol:

Maybe not, but the point is that the taxable benefit of the majority of new cars sold in the UK is less than £3000.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 18:53 
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malcolmw wrote:
Do people think this is good or bad?


Well if you want to increase the financial burden on employees of certain industries that aren't the best paid in the first place then I'm sure its a great idea :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:05 
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i do 40,00 miles pa. my car is certainly more a tool than a perk although having said that it certainly helps.

the old tax regime was fairer with reductions as your business mileage rises. This at least taxes in accordance wih the level of perk.

the current , co2, based tax encourages low mileage company car users. the cars that reallly are the perks.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:41 
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civil engineer wrote:
i do 40,00 miles pa. my car is certainly more a tool than a perk although having said that it certainly helps.

the old tax regime was fairer with reductions as your business mileage rises. This at least taxes in accordance wih the level of perk.

the current , co2, based tax encourages low mileage company car users. the cars that reallly are the perks.

But the taxable benefit arises from the private use of the vehicle - the amount of business mileage is irrelevant. The old system provided a perverse incentive to maximise business mileage.

In fact I would say that assessing the taxable benefit at 15% of the list price actually underestimates its value, which is probably more in the region of 20-25%.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:48 
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its perverse unless like me it refects reality.

My car is less of a perk than someone who does 5k pa back and fore to the office.

my personal mileage probably represents about 10% of total.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:55 
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There have been an unreasonable number of firms expecting employees to take their van home each night and garage at home. Then in the morning employees mate turns up and parks his car where the van has been all night clogging the street up for the day as well.

If you can park your van off road as well as your car .... Make it tax free.
Use of a company van and parking on overcrowded residential streets should be taxed.

There could be a lucrative opportunity for community van parking facilities to a keen entrepreneur

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Last edited by anton on Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:16, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 09:34 
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Quote:
There have been an unreasonable number of firms expecting employees to take their van home each note and garage at home.


In a lot of cases (mine included) the desire to take a van home comes from the employee rather than the employer.

My firm would be more than happy for me to start using my car to commute instead!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 18:38 
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Its also more efficent. Vans are not usually used in a typical commute, by taking them home they can do jobs/deliveries on the normal route home, or the same on they way in. They can go straight to their first job, rather then going into work, picking up the van then setting out on their days work.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 01:00 
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The employees will become officially "home based" only they have to go into the office if they're not out on jobs. Private mileage will be banned. The vans will stay where they are and the government will see very little extra tax. It just means that some low-income workers will lose their only form of transport.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 07:41 
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Lum wrote:
The employees will become officially "home based" only they have to go into the office if they're not out on jobs. Private mileage will be banned. The vans will stay where they are and the government will see very little extra tax. It just means that some low-income workers will lose their only form of transport.


This doesn't work with company cars to avoid benefit in kind taxation (altough you do avoid the fuel charge) so I imagine it won't excuse the van drivers. The typical example is home based salesmen who fulfil the criteria that you list. The only way you can avoid the car benefit is if the vehicle is locked up on company premises overnight and not in your possession.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 08:19 
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Quote:
The only way you can avoid the car benefit is if the vehicle is locked up on company premises overnight and not in your possession.
Not quite correct.....

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vans/employee-guidance.htm

Quote:
Company vans – guidance for employees

You will pay tax on a company van made available to you for private use as follows:

until 5 April 2005, if it is available for private use (including commuting)
from 6 April 2005, only if you actually use it for private journeys other than commuting.
This page provides links to information to help you understand when tax will be charged if you use a company van and how the charge is calculated

Quote:
Other private journeys
If you do make other private journeys in the van, you will be charged tax for this. However, if this private travel is insignificant (like taking an old mattress or other rubbish to the tip once or twice a year) then you will still not have to pay any tax.

If you are charged tax, the amounts you will have to pay tax on (normally collected using your Pay As You Earn (PAYE) tax code) are:

Year Age of van Amount included in your tax code Tax at basic rate
2005/06 under 4 years £500 £110
4 years or more £350 £77
2007/08 all vans £3,000 £660

The amount is reduced if you do not have the van for the whole tax year, if someone else also uses it for private travel, or if you pay something for using it privately.

Fuel for the van
If your employer lets you have free or subsidised fuel for private use, you will have to pay extra tax from 2007/08. For a basic rate taxpayer this will mean paying tax of around £110.

Year Amount included in your tax code Tax at 22% basic rate
2005/06 nil nil
2007/08 £500 £110

Please note: this fact sheet is for guidance only and reflects the position at the time of writing. Further information can be found here.

Quote:
How can I show there is no other private use?
Your employer must be able to show to the Inland Revenue that you don't have to pay tax. This means you could be asked to

keep mileage records
sign an agreement about the van use
have use of the van put into a contract of employment.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Last edited by anton on Wed Aug 23, 2006 08:28, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 08:22 
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Thanks for that. I didn't realise that the "available for use" definition had been changed for vans only.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 08:36 
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I can see the snoopers out photographing vans and pickup trucks at the beach/motorsport events/festivals/tescos etc.

Then letter arrives with demand for £660 with a photo of the van unloading beach kit, camping gear, shopping, baby etc.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 09:05 
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Actually taxing you on £3000 benifit seams unfair and excessive
as a citroen belingo only costs £5,172 new on auto trader
+vat, tax, delivery and first reg,
assuming you own the van two years it would be worth about £4,000
there fore you would have been taxed on £6000 when you only recieved
around £3000 benifit including insurance and servicing (not to mention that the van was mainly used for work!

I know a lot of people are providing posh 4 seater pick-up trucks for employees instead of a car. But it is unfair to clobber all van users rather than close the specific loop hole.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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