Safe Speed Forums

Quick Question:

In about 8 hours I am going to drive around 400 miles, all at 50mph or less (the vehicle I will be driving is just about capable of 60, but I am going to keep this in reserve, and will hopefully only need it for passing jcbs without cutting people up, etc). Anyway, as it looks like an ordinary car (albeit from before I was at school), should I flash the many lorry drivers that will overtake me - as I am obviously going to try to stay to dual carrigeways/motorways: if people actually overtook then I would use single carrigeway roads and drive at 40, however experience has shown me that doing this simply results in an enormous queue (with the occassional demented person doing very 'exciting' overtakes) - or will this be interpreted as being a lentilist?

The reason I ask is, although I'm not above doing well over double the national limit in certain veichles on certain well lit motorways, I usually stick to the 50/40 limits through roadworks, and flash long vehicles back into the left hand lane when they overtake, but it is relatively rare that I get the "indicator wink"; indeed, it is a just as common for me to get humerous gestures in the wing mirrors... This only ever happens when I am driving a car slowly, and I believe that this is because the flashes may be misinterpreted as an old git type gesture, as opposed to when you are in a slow van (I'm not old enough to be qualified to drive anything over 7.5 tonnes) when you almost universally get the "wink". It has occurred to me that I could well be doing something wrong, but it hasn't occurred to me what I am doing wrong yet - it certainly seems plausible that it's purely to do with driving cars capable of pressing on.

Anyhow, as almost all contributors to this forum are more experienced than me, do you think I should bother flashing long vehicle drivers - and if not, is there anything else that I can do to help them, as very slow drivers "without an excuse", as I will appear to be, are usually the most annoying inhabitents of the road, and I would like to cause minimal delays for everyone else...

In busy conditions drivers of large vehicles overtaking do find it helpful to know when they are clear and can return to the left. There are two components to 'clear' - one is that they have physically passeed and the second is that the driver of the vehicles being passed accepts the gap.

The results you have experienced may be because the flash given wasn't a clear signal in the large vehicle's mirrors. The usual signal - a two second long flash - takes account of the fact that they can't look in the mirror all the time and helps to distinguish the signal from some random 'I'm scared' or 'I'm here' flash that may arise.

When I give the 2 second long flash at an appropriate time I find that more than 80% of large vehicle drivers give some friendly acknowledgement - usually the 'indicator wobble'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Definately give a good long flash as Paul discribed. Its extremely difficult in an artic (or even when towing a long trailer behind a car) to judge when the back of the trailer is safely passed the vehicle you are overtaking. I would suggest that possibly another reason you're not getting the 'indicator wobble' is that most artic drivers get extremely frustrated when passing slow moving cars. For this reason, you can also help the lorry driver by backing off slightly and letting him overtake faster.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I nearly always get an acknowledgement when I flash to let them back in, but the other factor might be how long do you wait before flashing? If you wait for a two second gap for example, then it will have been obvious to the lorry driver well before then that it was safe to pull in, but if you do it pretty much as soon as they have cleared you, then you nearly always get a positive response - it does take time to move in, so by the time they are back in lane your safe gap is there again.

Absolutely spot on Paul, and as an Artic Driver I find this a completely agreeable answer.
Usually, we can recognise if a vehicle is not taking the wee wee, what annoys us is the brand new car that strolls along at 51mph, I know this because I passed one the other evening and could see the huge digital speed display on the centre of the dashboard.
Whats worse, is the ones that stroll along, you pull out to overtake and then they speed up, leaving us out there looking like a numpty, then when you pull back in, slow down again to their original speed, causing the same to happen again.
Do these muppets not realise, it's not just the trucks they are inconveniencing, it's every single vehicle that has to slow down to allow the truck out, because they can see what the stroller is doing.
Yet, these people are the first to whinge that a truck is tailgating them.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

If you are getting humorous gestures then you are probably leaving it too late.

You need to flash pretty much as their tail clears your nose. If you are not happy with them pulling in so close then just don't flash at all.

It's one of the things I remember form my van driving days, even driving a tiddly Astra I would get a flash after passing a HGV, or get flashed out of a sliproad. Something I would miss when driving my car.

The odd time I've been running in tyres, brakes or engines and therefore proceeding at a pace lower than HGVs, I give the two second "come-in" to those who pass me with minimal differential speed, but don't bother for those who are flying past. In the former case, I have assessed for many hundreds of car lengths in front that the road is clear and hazard-free (if it isn't, I do NOT flash)**, and am therefore happy for the lorry to come in once he is a foot or so past, knowing that the distance will take a couple of seconds to get back over and be up at or beyond 2 seconds clear of me in a short while and in any event before the road ahead I've adjudged to be hazard-free is fully covered.

** If it is a single carriageway road, I maintain my exact speed as the lorry passes until such time as I am obfuscated by the front of his cab from appraising the situation ahead/right, whereupon I feather brake, being prepared to anchor up. If I see a hazzard, I DO anchor up and as soon as - or even a tenthe of a second or so before I'm clear I get the lights on for him. I know this, I had to do it once - better than being "dead right".

Ahh good.

I'm glad you sorted that out. I wasn't sure why I considered it acceptable to give the flash so soon...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have to agree with you there Homer. Its not often that you get a 'come in' flash when driving a car, but as soon as I've got the boat trailer on the back I get a flash almost every time. I guess that as professional drivers they understand that I can't see the back of the trailer, and as I'm not driving like a prick they give me a break whereas a car is just another car right?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I rarely flash cars in, because they usually have good all round vision.
Vans, both large and small, have a much reduced field of vision, and vehicles with trailers, the driver may not be used to the length, so they get a flash.
Some cars do get a flash, they're the ones that pull in the split second they have got passed me and tried to take my bumper off, but that is a very much extended flash.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

How jolly nice to see our gold member's post of what to do when driving a vehicle slowly and concern at those who wish to travel faster. My father told me when I was a young man to 'always let the fast man through', and I have tried to always do this myself, as there are times when one does not want to drive fast, just admire the scenery. It is normally very easy to do, although on some twisty SC roads it is ocasionally necessary to pull in to the side of the road.

AS regards flashing to indicate it is safe for the truck to pull back in, my father, who learnt to drive a truck in WW2 RAF, and who now drives rather slowly, (he is IS 84 after all), always flashes the trucks back in; it is normal truck driver courtesy.

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

as a hgv driver you do realise that someone driving a van is gerally a professional driver and someone who is towing understands about increased braking and increased time build up speed so you can trust the signal they give it will be more reliable in general.
in answer to the first part i would say if you are going to flash assess the speed of the passing vehicle and what is further down that lane if it is approaching a junction for example a short gap ahead is a no no but if you can see a mile of clear lane or free flowing traffic the vehicle ahead will be able to pull in and keep accelering away anyway so the shorter gap isnt as much of a hazard.
i hope that all made sense.

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Im difficult to spot in this 44foot truck sorry i must have it in cloak mode again

I didn't have time to reply at the time, but the difference was how long I was flashing for - I was doing maybe 0.5 seconds. 2 seconds worked very well for everyone.

Cheers guys!

The flash means "you are clear of me" and "I'm happy for you to come back in". It's then up to the overtaker what to do about it. If you don't want them cutting back in too soon then don't flash. It's not compulsory.