Safe Speed Forums

Can't see anything posted on this so far.

Latest idea from Transport secretary - charge per mile and so article says abolish fuel tax.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 76,00.html

The Sunday Times - Britain

June 05, 2005

New plan for drivers to pay £1.30 a mile
Thats the times article.

http://www.independent.co.uk/

Satellite toll plan to make drivers pay by the mile

Thats the Independants bit.


What bothers me is bit about satelite - first its to provide for road charging, tomorrow - to make talivans and cameras extinct??

£1.30 a mile OR MORE!!!! Surely that's not correct!

For £200 road tax a year I do about 10,000 miles, which is 2p a mile. Plus about £3/gallon petrol tax which is about 10p a mile.

So 12p a mile under the present rip off system, and they want to make it £1.30! Who the hell's going to be able to afford to work?

HOW?

As i did not see anything about increasing the size of the network- How does road pricing enable you to fit 40% more cars etc on to the road.

If I have missed something please do tell me

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Its a con. they have ripped of the Lib Dem idea, and that was crap in the first place.

The real reason is that in the next 10 years there will be a huge shift to echo-fuels like Hydrogem ethanol etc. They cannot justify the current levels of tax on environmental grounds. They also cannot afford to reduce the tax.

The whole thing depends on the availibility of economic and robust technology, both as hardware and infrastructure whixh does not exist at the moment. Its just one of those press releases to gauge what the public think...time to give it the finger.

In any case the planned introduction is so far off that there will be at least two general elections between now and then....It will be interesting to see what the opposition will have to say about it (by that I don't mean the Lib Dims)

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Speed camera policy Kills

See:

http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/roadprice.html

There are huge practical issues.

I really can't see it happening. It will go the way of British Euro entry, the European constitution and identity cards.

Also see:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... php?t=2469

for a thorough debate about the issues involved.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Actually the independant says Darling orders nationwide road pricing. Charge of £1.34 a mile on busiest roads

Peter E -I really can't see it happening. It will go the way of British Euro entry, the European constitution and identity cards.


Sincerely hope so.

Don't see the govt giving up a golden cow unless they can make more on its sucessor

This idea absolutely ridiculous. I heard on the Talksport Radio news this morning that Friends of the Earth support this stupid scheme. Moaning on and on with the usual spin about Global Warming, climatic change and congestion, one of its representatives said, "The Government must ensure that the overall cost of motoring becomes too expensive."

I don't know about you, but I think that the Department of Transport and all the Environmentally friendly organisations are like playground bullies who are intent upon forcing your dinner money off you. Unless you stand up for yourself, you'll be a doormat too scared to do anything else but hand over money when the bully tells you to.

If you want to combat congestion, take all the untaxed and uninsured cars OFF THE ROAD! One more thing Darling, your proposal stinks so go and play in the traffic!

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

Any common sense idea would start by working out how much they currently expect in tax, and divide that by the total miles driven, and youd have a reasonable stab at a starting point, and Im sure it would be no where near 1.30 per mile.

Surely then they could just sqeeze a tiny amount if they seriously want us to consider walking.

Anyone know what the national taxtion is, or hazard a guess a the rough mileage of the nation?

In fact, they could do it now, without waiting for the technology, and put it on the fuel. I think the current level of taxation would cost me about 0.23 of a penny a litre, and surely this also serves as an encouragement for us not to buy gas guzzlers. Why havent they thought of this? Why, because it would be fair on everybody, with no real method of screwing the motoring public.

Jules

all of these bright ideas assume there are loads of people out there that drive around all day for a sort of hobby.....now i admit that when i was young and got the first car i did use to drive it just for fun but nowadays....endless cameras.... loads of traffic.... i use my car when i need to (as i imagine does everyone else) this will just crucify people living in rural areas with minimal public transport and make delivery charges even higher.......

We have been having quite a debate on this issue for a while over on Scoobynet here:
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432249&page=1&pp=20

I have already written to my old MP (now ousted) and will be writing to the incoming MP to see what her views are on the whole issue of not only road charging, but also ISA. If you do not know about ISA, please read up on it (intelligent speed adaptation) as it is the second step after they've put the "black box" in your car to charge you.

We are staring down the barrel of an Orwellian novel. You've got to take steps to stop this from happening!

Driving used to be a pleasure, and still can be for the time being. I will be seriously thinking about moving out of this overcrowded island if it ever come to fruition. At least at the Nurburgring they allow you to have fun.

Thanks
Clare
Northloop

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I like driving my car so shoot me

Exactly right, it is just about the daftest thing ever. Its effects wont be uniform but will be chaotic, burdensome and require more tax to fund the infrastructure and administration. We just need proper roads infrastructure and investment in it. How can this idea be green if a petrol guzzling vehicle gets charged same road congestion tax per mile as a eco-friendly one? At least a petrol tax acts as a disincentive to have a guzzler.

It just typifies the parochial London-centric thinking that comes from those "perforated donkeys" who consider themselves our "betters". They see cars as a luxury... The company Mercedes that your wife uses to drop you off at Carshalton Beeches station in the morning, takes the kids to school, does the round of coffee mornings and "good works" before collecting you from the station after a hard day's usury in The City...

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

The cynic in me says that this is a bargaining measure. They will let this idea go and instead settle for a 50% rise in fuel tax, and we will have to be grateful for it.

I agree...I was listening to the discussions on the radio this morning. No one was for the idea, a few said why not put a couple of pence on fuel.....scary stuff, how can the public be so stupid as to fall for this trick again.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Bad news the Conservative spokesman on radio 5 this morning said they welcomed it as long as it was revenue neutral. So that's all party support to the principle.

so 450 people (volunteers)....will represent 30 million drivers.
Now let me think....what kind of people would volunteer
Seems like a whitewash in the making to me

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Speed camera policy Kills

I'd volunteer for the GPS based one just so that I demonstrate how simple it is to bypass - tin foil over the ariel anybody? How did that power wire become unclipped? Don't give me rubbish about box under the bonnet - the ariel must have a decent uninterrupted view of the sky, and installation will not be trivial. As anybody with a mobile GPS knows hanging on to a decent signal or getting one in the first place can be difficult at times.

As for microwave, well it might work for major roads, but the cost would be massive to cover every little rural road in the country. Unless we are talking about triangulation from mobile transmitters (assuming there is enough overlap).

And what about the underlying IT system - we are talking about applying an individual charge for potentially every single vehicle mile, and sending out individual detailed bills (monthly?) that can be challenged - "Why am I charged for the motorway, I didn't go on it, I have switched to the little white road that runs parallel to it". Even allowing for the total incompetance of such systems from HMG, what about the overheads on business? Every business expenses system will need serious reworking and a lot more time spend entering the detailed costs for each journey.

What do we have to do to get politicians that have even the slightest clue about the real world? The only thing I can see coming is a hugely expensive white elephant that will reduce unemployment because of the huge number of people required to run the system... ah a favorite of New Labour that one!

1984 here we come. Satellite tracking in every vehicle.....centrally produced speeding fines, no need for the scammers there then.

I think the last few governments have forgotten to take population growth when considering transport capacity, rather than doing everything they can to promote rapid traffic flow, all we see are potholed roads and dual carriageways with cross hatchings all over them.

This whole concept terrifies me. Lets face it, all of the car manufacturers are working towards more efficient vehicles all the time - my current car (1.8 vectra), uses less fuel than my first car (1.3 maestro) - hows that for an improvement!

Or you get the whole debacle about DERV - "Use diesels, they are more economical, better for the environment, lower fuel duty...." So everyone changes to DERV, and all of a sudden DERV duty is higher than petrol, and diesels are no longer better for the environment!

What they need to do is stop trying to stop people using their cars until a time when there is a superb nationwide public transport system (Pig flying time), and concentrate on improving the current infrastructure. They spouted about using motorways to reduce congestion, so everyone does that, and rather than increasing the capacity, you get toll roads to address the congestion issues. But then again, you cannot increase capacity without cutting down a couple of trees, and this is BAD!

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

A couple of points:

(1) I would not be happy about some little critter drilling holes in my car to put this box in-especially one of my classics.

(2) If the scheme is intended to reduce congestion by 40% then who are they going to charge the highest rate to once the congestion reduces?

(3) Where will the funds come for the costs and the usual over-budget costs?

(4) Will you be charged extra if you are caught in congestion caused by unforseen circumstances? who will handle all the claims for compensation?

(5) Will all other forms of revenue raising be abolished or just reduced? i.e. road tolls, road tax, fuel tax/vat and congestion charging.


Regards


Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Of course you will be charged extra, and if you are on the more expensive roads you can be sure there will be no reduction even if nobody else is on the road.

There will be "computer errors" but no refunds when drivers overcharged, only demands to pay up when drivers are undercharged.

And tax on fuel will remain in place, as will annual road tax.

There will be no extra investment in public transport.

Don't forget that all the uninsured and untaxed drivers will still be uninsured and untaxed, while those of us who play be the rules will be the ones paying the extra tax.

In "Grumpy Old Man" mode today