Safe Speed Forums

I disagree to this for many reasons and so do not support or agree with his aim.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Another lunatic aiming to take charge of the asylum. He ,mistakenly , believes that motorists believe that the limit ( in this case 60) is the aim ,rather than the limit ,and speed for the occasion decided on the road /road conditions. Perhaps we need a petition to get stupid petitions like this one barred . Or have knee jerk petitions like this one judged against the reasonable requirements of the relavent advice( in this case HC 146 ). "do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit"

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Well, he's got precisely 7 signatures

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

One thing the Blog omits is that with the views shown, HOW many rational drivers will be doingb more than a few MPH on the road views he's shown .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, in practice if somehow you did introduce a 40 limit on single-track roads, it would make no difference to anything apart from introducing a lot of expensive signage clutter into the countryside.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

A need to fully understand the science behind speed limit setting and why is crucial before we have all roads governed by those who 'believe' in something is right than know why it genuinely is right - or wrong ! Facts please not fiction.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

...which is PRECISELY what has happened on the "Cold Fell" road which is a (15 mile!) "rat run" between Sellafield and Cockermouth. Single track, with passing places. NSL, not really many places it's even POSSIBLE to do more than 40 (never mind "safe") but because of the volume of traffic at shift end times, all coming away from Sellafield, it's very intimidating for someone coming the other way (I know, I've done it)!

Needless to say, that all still happens, but now we've got a variety of repeater signs despoiling the landscape as well...

I've never seen any enforcement activity up there, and the police were against the proposal when it was first mooted.

Presumably this was done after the road was photographed for Google StreetView in April 2009.

On a road like that it's probable that the prosecutable tolerance for a 40 limit is rarely achieved and, as often said on here before, the real issue people are unhappy about is volume of traffic, not speed.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

"I always thought that the NSL was 40MPH any way"...

(quote from the average sunday driver around the main roads of Shropshire and Mid wales)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

And other roads in the Midlands. I took a trip out yeasterday on the Fosse way ( NSL =60 ) over most of my route . Few nasty corners, but plenty of road clutter warning about accidents. And a lot of drivers at 40 ,when visibility on most of the route allows for a higher speed . Even then, I saw a lot of brake lights on corners and some drivers worried about the width of their car ( and few of them were driving Volvos ).

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, it was put in place in (I think) May 2011. The driving force behind it was a couple of collisions with animals. As far as I know there have been no (human) KSIs on there. It's common land, unfenced, and there are fell ponies that wander about (plus a fair number of sheep). I think there was a very unusual period where a few got hit within a short space of time, before the limit was introduced. Strangely, fewer since, so it must be working...

One of the search hits that came up when I looked for it was a report prior to the implementation of the speed limit in which the results of a traffic survey was alluded to. Average speed was (would you believe) 41 MPH. Max was 75 (which I imagine must have been a bike)!

"4.3 Data collected on maximum and average speeds records vehicles travelling at up
to 75mph on Cold Fell. Average speeds of between 34 and 41mph are recorded
along the route. Data from the most recent Traffic Survey is attached as part of
Appendix 1"

Strangely, Appendix 1 is missing...

Interestingly, it also goes into some detail about the number of repeater signs that would be needed and the visual impact on the environment, and discussed an option to have fewer signs, thought it left the limit "open to legal challenge". Can't remember what they went for in the end but that's worth remembering...

You probably know that the New Forest (just near me) is a 40mph zone (with villages at 30mph) and still there are collisions with animals.

You can put up as many signs as you want but if people are stupid enough to go closely past ponies at 40mph "because it must be safe" then you will get accidents. As usual, it is unobservant driving and not speed which is the issue.

I also agree with PeterE that speed is just a proxy for "don't drive past my house".

A blanket 40ph limit will make no difference. I imagine that as this is the limit on Jersey (35mph on Guernsey) that there are no collisions in the Channel Islands.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I’ve driven past areas where there are sheep passively grazing at the edge of the road which have more brains and road traffic sense than some pedestrians. Maybe when I refer to mindless humans as sheeple I’m actually doing a disservice to the sheep.

Seriously, there’s a lovely place I often ride through during the Spring and Summer months called Clee Hill which has cattle grids and sheep everywhere along the roadside for about two miles. Yet I can pass them at 40 mph confident in the knowledge that they won’t just walk or jump in front of me; including their offspring. (Well it hasn’t happened in my lifetime). But if I see a pedestrian I slow down to less than 30 mph because it could be a moron.

If sheep and their ‘children’ can learn this why can’t humans

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Perhaps people have too much they are thinking about and not concentrating on the task at hand? Sheep/ cows / ponies etc are 'vaguely' concentrating and either 'don't care/understand' the issue, so don't move or do so slowly or they stand there.... or with some animals move into the passing places or off the road (usu the experienced bred animals).

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Absolutely - I mean, when did you last see a sheep wandering around blindly, whilst looking at it's mobile and listening to its MP3 player?!

That said, I think it's truer to say that more sheep get hit on rural roads than humans, so they're probably not THAT bright after all...

I tend to find that you need to keep up a decent speed when it comes to sheep. If you go too SLOWLY, they get panicky and start running along the road ahead of you. The Cold Fell horses are very different though. They will actually try to approach a car because they often get fed by people in cars. There's also often a lot of low cloud up there and I'd be the first to admit that plenty of users of that road don't slow down enough in those conditions...

...but then, why should they? I mean, if they're within the limit, they're safe, right?

...which really only further highlights the stupidity of such speed limits...

Quite Mole, and I'll get to that...

I would say yes and no

No, they don’t have too much to think about because they expect the motorists to do all the thinking for them when it comes to their own safety. And yes, they are most certainly not concentrating on the task at hand – unless the task is the crap coming through their Iplayer or gawping at their phone.

They need to get their priorities right; crossing the road being a higher priority than other matters. Just lately I’ve noticed joggers running across junctions with an MP player stuck in their ears. Is that really wise, I ask myself..

Sometimes I feel like the only responsible road user who takes the task of using roads seriously. Not being arrogant but, to borrow from an example recently... I was driving along using my eyes and ears, as always, when I spotted in my rear view mirror an ambulance way behind me. It had the blues and twos going but was about eight or ten cars behind me, at a guess.

So I put my hazards on and swiftly pulled over. I swear each and every one of those cars between me and the ambulance overtook me; one of them giving me a look like WTF are you doing as he went past me. The ambulance overtook me a moment later of course and a couple of the cars which overtook me did pull over ahead once the penny dropped, but even so what’s going on???

Well, actually, I know what was going on with the one driver who past me because I could hear and feel the ‘boom boom’ music as he went by. All cocooned in their own little worlds with the special awareness of a comatosed cretin!

Still, so long as they're not speeding that's okay...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Ah but Weepy would be quick to tell you that you SHOULD be taking more care anyway because you're in command of "x" kilos of motorised metal, which makes you an evil, road hog, a Mr. Toad with psychological problems of inadequacy to deal with. Problems that can only be remedied by dominating and asserting yourself over other lesser road-using proletariat on non-motorised transport, whilst spewing out your toxic waste (and eating their babies)...etc etc.

Of course, you MIGHT just be another road user who is trying to get from A to B just like anyone else, except you're in a tin box with an engine )and paying handsomely for the privilege)...

More seriously though. I agree completely that this is part of the damage done by trying to shift all the responsibility on to the motorist. You don't reduce accidents, you just make them the motorist's fault. If you REALLY wanted to reduce accidents, it ought to be patently obvious that ALL road users have a shared duty of care.

(Big Tone)
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Going slightly OT,I've always found that there differences in reactions between the various breeds of sheep. White faced ones tend to scatter and panic. Black faced ones seldom move ( unless you slap the side of the door panel with the palm of your hand ).Buti n the highlands on single track roads the most dangerous animal was the southern tourist . Possibly the same in Cumbria .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on