Safe Speed Forums

I noticed it when I first drove a friend's Astra. I often wonder if it has anything to do with the very popular, "now you see it now you don't", style of indicating/flashing twice and cancelling (blink and you missed it).



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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Not sure but I can tell you I see it happening all the time Grabs; not so 20 years ago.

The Octavia I use is pathetic! Filled with this cheap modern bu!!$h1t. Useless magnetic catch on the boot, dangerous indicators which have a mind of their own. If I won one in a competition I wouldn't even open the door; I'd just sell it on eBay. A great engine spoilt by pathetic cost savings in quality human interface controls.

And they, manufacturers, are pretty much all at it sadly

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I think you're referring to the same thing that my current Pug has? If you push the indicator stalk down momentarily (but not far enough for it to latch) and release it again, the left indicator flashes 3 times. If you push it down far enough to let it latch, then it works as they normally do (just keeps flashing until it either self-cancels or you cancel it). The former is a feature that's just really designed for motorway lane changes to save you from the exertion of having to hold the indicator stalk down for a few seconds! On the Peugeot (and I imagine most cars with that feature will be similar) you can disable it if you don't like it. Not sure how. You probably have to turn the ignition on and off again with the indicator in a certain position whilst pressing the brake pedal, touching your nose and singing the French National Anthem. My last VW Sharan did it too. Most of the time it works very well, but I do get into situations where it all goes wrong and you end up indicating all over the place trying to stop the stupid thing!

I hate it all Mole!

Press the lever up for indicate left. Press down for right. Fcukin simples!

If I want to cancel what should be a very simple operation I shouldn't have to cough twice and pull on my testicles!

More

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yep as Tone said earlier, how on earth did that (and those pathetic weak indicator lenses) get through approval?

Something that could cause accidents (by wrongly acting or un-noticeable indicators) should be better scrutinised before being let out on the public, who are sh@@ in general at indicating correctly, at the best of times.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

By whom ?

Is there no standards agency, that things such as brakes, lighting, indicators etc have to be passed by before being approved for road use?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I know there's one for the flash rate of indicators so why not the functionality? I know I'm not alone on this because, as I say, I see the problem I describe happening all the time on motorways. (When they bother to use them that is )

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I'm sure Mole can give chapter & verse on vehicle regs.
The VMs will ensure:
a) it passes homologation
b) it has whatever magic features their brand demands/aspires to
c) they won't get sued for whatever magic new features they've added

So short of succesful court action or a change in legislation they're free to carry on

Although this does seem like another case of SS hysteria, yes they're not all very ergonomic or intuitive and maybe occasionally catch people unawares but claiming they actively cause accidents is all a bit daily mail

I see many very close shaves, from people not indicating or indicating wrongly on roundabouts and whilst poor indicating or dodgy indicator stalks, probably don't actually cause many accidents and those are probably not too serious in the main , the fact that they are inferior to traditional indicators and have the ability to cause accidents, for something that doesn't really have to be so inefficient at doing a simple job, surely has to wrong.

If modern braking systems were to sudden be "workable" but little better than the old drum brakes, would that be acceptable too?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

This thread's getting confusing now!

OK, first of all, indicator stalks. No real requirements other than standardised symbols on them. Is Tone's problem just related to the "automatic 3 flashes" feature that some cars have, or is it something else? Tone, you mentioned lack of tactle feeback?? Anyway, the "3 flashes" thing can, I imagine, be disabled. Just a case of looking in the handbook, disabling it, and then you just use them like indicators used to be.

Grabs, the indicator lights not bright enough? I take it you mean the yellow ones on the corners of the car rather than the dashboard telltales? If so yes, there is shed-loads of legislation. For a start, there are requirements for the bulbs in terms of light output, colour, power consumption, etc. They need to be "e-marked". Then there are a load of requirements for the lamp as a whole (i.e. reflector, bulb, lens). The spectrum of colours they can emit are prescribed (but it's quite a broad range) and there are loads of other requirements (abrasion and chemical resistance of the lens, optical properties, light output at various angles either side above and below the axis of the light as you look straight at the bulb). There are requirements for resistance to heat distortion of the reflector and so on. Finally, there are requirements for the lamp "as installed". Particularly important on modern cars where several lamps will share a reflector housing (and in some cases a lens). Also proximity to other lights and positions relative to the corners of the veicle & so on. It's pretty heavily regulated. I've seen brake lights and foglights that look too "pink" to me, and I've seen indicators that look a bit too white, but there's so much non-genuine cheap Chinese tat out there (especially bulbs and "Max power" aftermarket light clusters) that I suppose the ones you're seeing could be non OE?

The lenses that I find difficult to see in bright sunlight are usually rovers (415 i think) and some small pugs. The lense itself seem to be blackish more than orangish. All these cars seem to have them so must be standard. As for indicators that only flash three times, how many drivers are going to study the handbook, let alone be bothered to actually change them over to normal type indicator stalks...why have them in the first place?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

If this is the finding of someone who knows a fair bit about cars and is used to the system, just think how old mrs Miggins (from the pie shop) who only drives ten miles a week, is going to cope with it?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Thanks Grabs and yes! I drive so many different hire cars aside from our regular three which we permanently have on a contract as ‘pool cars’. Sorry to have drifted onto the indicator thing and do please move/split if it’s too much of a drift of course, but this has been the biggest gripe and stone in my shoe which I have of most modern cars...

No Mate, it’s not that I’m afraid. There is simply no assurance, or reassurance, that it will do what you wanted it to do. i.e. cancel the indicator. I can only explain it this way if I may..

Three positive distinct positions for indicators which represent; left, right, and middle, (which is off). The lever feels like you are holding a pencil and there is no auditory feedback, (click), and no feel to what it’s done or doing, (a ball bearing and spring ‘feel’ locating into the option you want).

It’s cheap crap controlled by a PIC and the user interface is more cheap crap! (I know what I'm talking about here because I know about PIC's and their widespread, cheap, use).

I used to not give it a seconds thought in the old days and could totally rely on the aforementioned – not any more though! It’s like you are holding a pencil Mole and I move it for left or right and it does that without the slightest feedback and the most or equally important function is hard to find to stop the damn thing flashing!

It acts as though there are only two positions and the mysterious ‘turn the fcuk off’, is a lighter touch, hard to find, nebulous G-spot. (For Gone somewhere else). Not all cars are like it, I’m glad to say. The other day I drove a Hyundai. Modern stuff, built to a price, but it had modern hi-tech with the old-style no nonsense feedback and simplicity.

I feel no-one understands me. I want me mum...

Add: It's not three flashes. As I said, and I keep doing it like others do, you move and flash right and go to turn it of by pushing the lever the other way. That makes it flash left so you push it back the other damn way and it flashes right again. So you get drivers, including experienced me, trying to cancel the indicators but instead going: -

I'm moving right
I'm moving left
I'm moving right
I'm moving left....

Holy s t! I've managed to cancel the f n' thing at last!

Now where was I? Oh yes. I was trying to concentrate on the road and traffic!

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I know exactly what you mean mate. I used to dislike the Fiat van's dip swich where you pulled it for main beam and pulled it for dip and the only way you could tell was by the blue light.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Ah OK, now I understand!

Tone, it's not at all what I thought you were talking about. As now understand it, you'd just like a more positive feel to the switchgear. Fair comment. I think most controls (including the brake pedal) on a modern car are too light. You'd like my old Alfa, the indicator stalk virtually lifts you out of your seat before it latches!

Grabs, yes, I've seen some cars where I think the colour of a light is incorrect. On older cars, the lenses sometimes go a bit milky (which they shouldn't do if the correct grade of plastic is used). Also, the reflectors go dull, and the bulbs loose some of their brightness as well. I find it worse with "white" indicators that are supposed to have yellow bulbs to give them their colour. Again, there's always the possibi;ity that someone will have replaced a bulb with a poor qualiy item.

I discovered on our old Astra pool cars... after a few right-left-right-left lane changes that it was actually worked.. and was easier to cancel by pressing again in the same direction.. totally counter intuitive i agree.
I seem to recall in fact that model had NO latching position on the stalk just two levels of momentary movement for 3 flashes, and ON, presumeably the cancel was all electronic.
Noteable then that the latest model at least has a mechanical ON position.

Yes, you learn this after a while.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Yes I noticed this too ed. One of our cars is an Astra from 2007 and it also has the cheap junk.

I don't think manufacturers realise how such a small thing would make the difference between a sale or no sale to some people. That's how much I hate them! I don't care what offer they have on, they fixed something which wasn't broke and made it both worse and dangerous.

Years ago, I never once used to have to look at the instrument pack to know what I have done with the indicators and what state of activity they are in at any time. Don't these fools who design the damn things ever test drive them FFS!

Unfortunately I have little say in the matter with the cars we have at work or what one we get for hire on the day. There ought to be an adopted standard, a bit like the radio. I'm sure there's no rules over it, other then tacit I think, but everyone knows how to search for a different radio station and that when you want to store it you select the number button and press and hold until it beeps. It's standard stuff and you know where you are with it.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Ok, nothing to do with electric handbrakes but...

Were you confused by some cars in the past having the indicator and wiper stalks reversed left to right? Generally, European cars had the indicators on the left and Japanese/UK cars on the right.

If you got used to this then why do you find the non-latching stalks on current indicators a problem?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.