Safe Speed Forums

Typical. Rainy weekend beckons for Silverstone. Will Jenson Button equal Schumi's record of consecutive wins?


But we're all off to Silverstone to see for ourselves this weekend. Wildy's idea of a Papa's day treat for me.

But what do folk think about the possibilty of the "breakaway" championship resulting from the "budget capping"? Cannot see any benefit myself - think it would have the same effect as Packer on cricket.

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F1 should be the showcase of technical expertise, have minimal constraints and thus should not be financially capped. If you can't afford it, don't do it. Nobody forced Honda to spend £300M.

What next from the FIA? Well, hard on the heels of a common engine and gearbox we could have a rule that cars can only use Micra road brakes to limit costs.

IMO, Max and Bernie are too powerful and this is an attempt to curtail this. Just politics.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I cannot wait for the whip cracking S&M buff, and that odious little man who spoils the look of the paddock on race days to fall flat on their faces over this - they have ruined the sport with their meddling and stage managing the races for their financial gain.

They are wealthy enough for it not to bother them anyway, and with any luck we will see a return to racing at it's best.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Some interesting comments on my blog this morning on this very subject!

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/alan.marsh/blog/2009/06/19/grand_prix_farce#comments

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Si, Alan, which way would you like F1 to develope? An open formula with unlimited budgets where technical innovation is encouraged even if it leads to total domination by one team for many years. Or a completely restricted class, all cars alike, which would emphasise driver skill and give very close and attractive racing. Or keep the present system where the rules are changed, in retospect, to prevent any one team dominating.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

When I went one of the best parts was watching the start/finish straight before the race with all of the people milling around and preparing the cars. I had a view down into the pit lane which was good to watch too, though I wish I'd had some binoculars with me. The cars were incredibly loud, even with ear plugs in, and even though you see less than you would on tv the sound and smell made up for that.

Getting out of the car park took over an hour and I noticed quite a few people with disposable BBQs that had made the smart decision to wait for the traffic to die down before making a move home. Depends if it rains like you say, it might be a nice way finishing the day off if it does not though.

Have fun.

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Well, I'll reply before Ernest.


There are a lot of racing formulae like this. This is not F1.


Basically, yes. F1 is meant to be the technological pinnacle of the sport. However the formula should not be absolutely open and the basics of maximum engine capacity and minimum weight should be retained.

In fact, once one team has a technological breakthrough, others will copy and improve on it and the indefinite dominance will not occur. Changing the rules to prevent one team dominating is just like saying that there should be no schools other than comprehensives and we have to let all be winners.

Do you think that we should ban overseas football players so that MU don't win all the time?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

If F1 is to be the technological pinnacle or the sport, and I agree that it should be, why not have a completely unlimited class?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I was initially against the concept of FOTA. I was worried about the lack of pragmatic innovation coming, and rippling down from, unlimited budgets. The big outfits are usually those who are most conservative when it comes to real innovation; they tend towards optimising what they already have instead of risking something new. I thought it was particularly rich of Ferrari to complain of a two-tier system when they they’re at the top of the current tier.

However,

I've since realised most teams expend a great deal of effort designing around the constantly changing technical limitations imposed upon them. These limitations don’t apply to normal or competitive driving, so the resulting innovations don’t do anyone any real good, so it’s money poorly spent; this is worse than any other financial issue.

Added to that: I gave up watching F1 a long time ago. I would watch an all out technological frenzy; I suspect many other people feel the same. If FOTA can agree on a competitive framework then Max and Bernie will lose this battle - fingers crossed!

It seems Max might get spanked without having to pay for it

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The constant rule changes is leading to no team knowing what is required any more, and in some cases (recent furore over diffusers) even the admin staff were not clear on how the rules should be interpreted.

Whenever one team has dominated, others have come forward to take up the challenge and improve.
Williams, Ferrari, MacLaren have all dominated seasons, but then been pitched off by another team next season!

After a season or two, with no changes, the level of technical innovation of the big players would reach a plateau were improvements would be small, and the lesser players would improve their vehicles by imitating the ideas trialed by the bigger teams, and making small improvements on them.
The KERS system has already diversified into two possibilities - fly wheel or electrical, and this would be the sought of area where small teams could compete with new technology, and everyone would eventually benefit from trying their own version.

The big manufacturers put the money into F1 because they get the technical benefit out, not because more people buy a Mercedes or a Ferrari because they saw one do well on a track.
If Mosely and Ecclestone stop this, they stop the developments that sustain F1.
(IMHO)

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Anywhere near vale? We'll be there.

I'm quite optomistic about the breakaway either most likely forcing FIA reform or being itself a better sport. This has been brewing for years, the sport and in particular the fia needed a kick up the arse and I think we (the fans) will be better off when the dust settles, whatever emerges.




I dunno thats true, the really successful manufacturer teams like renault are run as separate entities from renault inc. The problem with honda and toyota is that the suits from tokyo are/were too involved with their respective F1 teams, F1 is so vastly different from road car research that while technology can filter down it's generally so specialized a team is best off left alone. When VW built the veyron they approached F1 manufacturers about certain components like gearboxes but left emptyhanded cos they wanted a 10 year life expectancy unit while F1 gearboxes are designed to last a few hundred miles, and they simply didn't have the capacity to make anything that far removed from their core business.

People don't think "I need a new hatchback, oh I'll get a renault cos they won the F1, it's more about prestige and more about influencing people on a subliminal level. renault are the french national team, when renault win, france celebrates. British people may have affinity for mercedes cos they power mclaren. It's about being seen to be the best, or at least being seen to be able to challenge the best.

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Ah.. we had a fine time.. milling around the cars.. drooling .. right good carnival atmosphere

Yes.... Wildy sent me and all our older children on our way with a picnic hamper.. full of home made tasty morsels and she followed down later with her own father and the three youngest. Met IG and two other Swiss "hooligans" on the way Result? One heck of a jolly!

Once there - we had the opportunity to look at the cars .. smell them .. breathe in their essence of engine oil and petrol .. listen to the real sound of them OK .. so we had to watch the telly afterwards to see the things we missed.. but I think it's like watching and clapping the TdF/ToB cyclists en route - which has none of the start/finish line atmosphere where you are yelling at the cyclists to spur them on to the finish line.. and then taking part in the activities..for the pure indulgent fun of it all.


Yes ..we extended our trip to make it into a much needed mini-break for us too


OK wax lyrical of the sheer experience apart...future of F1 and UK Grand Prix.

Heartening to hear that Silverstone will be used next year if Donnington is not ready to take over the slot. Sadness that Silverstone is not judged "au fait" when it's reputed to be one of the trickiest tracks around...and perhaps this track will be upgraded anyway when "retired" Who knows?

As for the F1 capping? It's as Sir Stirling Moss said .. a glam sport with glam cars. What F1 develops today - becomes the potential safety gadget in the family saloons of tomorrow. F1 technology nurtured the seeds of ABS/on board car computers etc when all's said and done.

As my kid sister has "pondered in passing" on a different forum .. do we stop breeding blood lines of hunter horses/jumpers/speedy hoofers and just train the horse regardless of bloodline genetics? You can take the horse to the jockey and the car to the driver . but the jockey/driver still has to understand and "be at one with his steed" to win or gain the points to count towards the championship.


Do I think a second championship luring the big players to be like the Packer cricket circus of yesteryear? Well yes. I think it runs the same dangers and the same demise in time - should it happen. I think maybe my kid sister has a point when she contemplated the logistics of a race whereby all cars conform to a set design and a second race in which the dream cars are pitted against each other.. but then realised that in this secondary thought . she was actually describing the current F1 My kid sisters? Nice .. safe .. enthusiastic-ish but not 100% car-smacked - but intuitive all the same!

What seems very interesting to me is that the car designers behind Brawn and Red Bull who are dominating this season's races .. were once the brains behind Ferrari et al.. and are doing so at a shoe string budget by comparison .. and just maybe it's a fluke this year. I think this may be influencing to some exent. I think perhaps they should wait to see what happens in 2010 before making any far reaching decisions.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Much of the clever technology advances is bought in from other developers, who work with the teams.
Mclaren's "Mercedes" engines are developed by a team of different experts funded by Mercedes.

Around 350 (highly) specialised engineers, developers and managers from Mercedes-Benz form a company called HighPerformanceEngines Ltd., the engine constructors for the McLaren-Mercedes Formula 1 race cars! Oils, alloys, fuel and gearbox specialists all have input which brings many useful spin offs.

Other specialists include the tyre manufacturers, and components for brakes, suspension, and all sorts of sensor gizmos. It is often all those areas of expertise which find a place on saloon cars.
You are right - Renault Formula 1 has little to do with Renault saloons. It is the little pieces which find their way across which are important.

Has anyone here bought a car because the F1 version did well?
Will anyone be buying Red Bull now that Vittel has a win under his belt?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

No. But I have bought Bridgstone tyres on that basis.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Exactly - you wouldn't want Bridgestone to shirk on research simply because FIA decide to impose an arbitary limit on team's budget - you would rather have the best money can buy - and the teams seem to think the same way!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!