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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 08:15 
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Daily Telegraph

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Tories unveil green 'showroom tax' on cars
By Toby Helm, Chief Political Correspondent
Last Updated: 6:01pm BST 09/09/2007

Plans for a “showroom tax” on new cars - which would hit 4X4 “gas guzzlers” the hardest - will be unveiled by David Cameron’s “green advisers” this week.

The radical proposal for a graded tax on car sales - which could add up to £2,000 to the cost of a family saloon - aims to persuade drivers to opt for low carbon options such as the Toyota Prius or a new generation of all-electric cars.

The controversial idea is expected to form the centrepiece of an 800-page report to be published on Thursday by the Tories’ Quality of Life group, led by Zac Goldsmith, the multi-millionaire environmentalist, and former Tory environment secretary John Gummer.

The document will also suggest a blitz of new regulations to prevent household gadgets such as fridges, televisions and other appliances wasting electricity.

Under the Tory plan for a greener world, all electrical goods, such as plasma screen televisions, that exceed precise limits on the permissible level of energy they use could be banned from sale.

Manufacturers would also have to fit televisions and other equipment with devices that ensure they switch themselves off after a certain time, rather than remain on standby.

Some 2 per cent of Britain’s total electricity use is currently taken up by appliances left on stand-by rather than being switched off.

Tory sources said Mr Cameron was determined to take forward many the ideas in the document to ensure his party goes into the next election as “the greenest” party.

To change habits in the home the document also suggests offering tax reductions worth thousands of pounds to householders if they install energy-efficient gadgets.

The reliefs would come in the form of reductions in council tax and rebates on stamp duty for the most energy conscious homeowners.

Mr Goldsmith told BBC1’s Sunday AM that the drive behind his group’s proposals on domestic energy use was to introduce financial motivations for householders to go green.

“To upgrade your home is always going to be a disruptive process, so the best time to do that is when it changes ownership - that’s when you’re going to be removing your furniture, carpets, curtains or whatever,” he said.

“At that point it makes sense to make these various changes, so we are saying we should offer very generous stamp duty rebates if your home is passed on in the best possible condition.

“If you do that, it becomes less of an ethical decision and more of an investment and financial decision...

“The principal focus is on energy. We can achieve massive reductions from very little investment, and from the homeowners’ point of view that does pretty quickly lead to savings on your bills.”

Controversially, the group will also suggest scrapping Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as a measure of the nation’s economic health in favour of a model that measures people’s happiness, as drawn up by Friends of the Earth.


I wonder if this is more to do with the government have run out of money, they are running out of fuel options, left it to late to do anything about our energy needs, and it’s any excuse to charge us all even more tax.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 09:55 
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Cameron is trying my patience.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:29 
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civil engineer wrote:
Cameron is trying my patience.


My feelings also. What concerns me is that I feel pretty much the same about the rest of the Westminster oxygen-wasters, so for the first time since I became eligible to vote, I honestly don't think I could bring myself to vote for anyone if an election was called right now... it's hard not to be apathetic when you've got a pathetic government.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:04 
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If the showroom tax is really going to be Conservative policy then I will certainly not vote for them ever again.

The reason? I hate non-fact based knee-jerk posturing from idiots.

Doesn't this tell you all you need to know?
Quote:
Controversially, the group will also suggest scrapping Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as a measure of the nation’s economic health in favour of a model that measures people’s happiness, as drawn up by Friends of the Earth.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:34 
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Manufacturers would also have to fit televisions and other equipment with devices that ensure they switch themselves off after a certain time, rather than remain on standby.

It might be no great hassle to turn the tv on manually for most of us but I know three people with MS who would find it an absolute nightmare.
for example mike and kay who would have to be hoisted out of bed into a wheel chair, In reality this would mean they could not turn thier tv on.
richard would have to train his dog to turn on the tv.

Mike had his dog removed because he could not care for it properly.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:47 
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malcolmw wrote:
If the showroom tax is really going to be Conservative policy then I will certainly not vote for them ever again.


I'd rate the need to vote against new labour far higher than that otherwise sensible view.

This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:15 
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There's one thing that really annoys me about all these "green" taxes, and thats the hypocrasy of them. If mr camerons so damn green and caring why doesn't attack our societys problems at source, ie the throw-it-away-and-buy-a-better-one-every-five-minutes consumerism that rules our society? Probably because it drives our economy and he'd get no party donations I guess. But really, everything else is so much hypocritical waffle, and I resent having to pay ever more disingenuous taxes.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:49 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.


I just hope the majority of the British people can see this for themselves and, feel the same when it comes to the elections.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:05 
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Camoron really is a dick isnt he?

I mean, he wants to be seen as the greenest party? WTF for? Its just another one of these piss poor fads that he's gotten himself on the tailcoats of.
Its "fashionable" to be green, to recycle and all that malarky, but at the end of the day itll be for nought, because theres a much bigger problem than a bit of global warming ( notice how that terms been quietly dropped and replaced with the all encompassing "climate change"?) coming our way.
The planets long overdue for a pole reversal but its on its way as evidenced by the drift in the magnetic position of them....flip flop and thatll be car drivers faults too i suppose?
Mr Moroncam thinks a bit of tax on this car or that tv will offset and somehow reverse the effects of a nice big fat solar flare.....he's off his trolley.
I suspect he's fell off his bike once too many times, the oily cretin.

Funny isnt it? The solution to any problem is to tax it, and thats an idea that all politicians buy into, so vote for none of the useless shower of shite, its the only way to send a message to em.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:26 
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When will people realise that electric cars aren't a f**king solution??!! :x

Sorry for the profanity, but this really gets my goat. I had an argument with a mate of mine last week about it - he just couldn't understand that if the car is travelling at a given speed for a given distance, it requires the same amount of energy regardless of the energy source. Turning fossil fuel into heat to produce electricity to produce motice force will NEVER be 'better for the environment' than turning the fossil fuel straight into motive force and heat. :x

Grrrrrrrrrrr :hoppingmad:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:28 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.


Agreed. Personally I think even the BNP would be better than what we have now.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:30 
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MondeoST24 wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.


Agreed. Personally I think even the BNP would be better than what we have now.


Right now, I would happily see the BNP come to power. My head says its a bad idea, but my heart disagrees.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:38 
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MondeoST24 wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.


Agreed. Personally I think even the BNP would be better than what we have now.
:yesyes:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 13:43 
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Some 2 per cent of Britain’s total electricity use is currently taken up by appliances left on stand-by rather than being switched off.


This is total b!"£$%s. Most of the devices that can be put into standy consume less than 2% of their operating consumption. The amount of power used by industry will completely swamp the amount of power used by devices on standby.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:04 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
MondeoST24 wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
This current government is by far the worst I have ever seen. We need them gone at (almost) any price.


Agreed. Personally I think even the BNP would be better than what we have now.


Right now, I would happily see the BNP come to power. My head says its a bad idea, but my heart disagrees.


I deeply disagree (as you might expect ;) ) - votes for the BNP are votes against democracy in my view. Votes for the other idiots are merely votes for its continued failure.

And Paul - IMHO the current government is only the SECOND worst we've had... - the other one was Tory...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:07 
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prof beard wrote:
[And Paul - IMHO the current government is only the SECOND worst we've had... - the other one was Tory...


Now British politics has boiled down to voting for the least worst party.. :o

It is very very sad that in the past 20 years parties have only retained power because the opposition was so crap.

It is almost beyond belief

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:09 
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Gizmo wrote:
prof beard wrote:
[And Paul - IMHO the current government is only the SECOND worst we've had... - the other one was Tory...


Now British politics has boiled down to voting for the least worst party.. :o

It is very very sad that in the past 20 years parties have only retained power because the opposition was so crap.

It is almost beyond belief


Indeed hence my point about voting for democracy's continued failure as opposed to its demise...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:12 
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prof beard wrote:
I deeply disagree (as you might expect ;) ) - votes for the BNP are votes against democracy in my view. Votes for the other idiots are merely votes for its continued failure.


I just feel the need to show my disgrace at the number of immigrants here TBH. Gordie was waffling on the news yesterday about getting 500,000 people off the dole queue and into work... well how about removing 500,000 bloody Poles from the UK...

Its a sore spot, but it feels like most of my town is now overrun with Poles and it makes me really angry.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:14 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
prof beard wrote:
I deeply disagree (as you might expect ;) ) - votes for the BNP are votes against democracy in my view. Votes for the other idiots are merely votes for its continued failure.


I just feel the need to show my disgrace at the number of immigrants here TBH. Gordie was waffling on the news yesterday about getting 500,000 people off the dole queue and into work... well how about removing 500,000 bloody Poles from the UK...

Its a sore spot, but it feels like most of my town is now overrun with Poles and it makes me really angry.


At least the overwhelming majority of Poles work hard...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 14:15 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
[...]I just feel the need to show my disgrace at the number of immigrants here[...]

:yesyes:
and the number of new laws
and the talk of all this DNA database
and the amount of tax I pay
etc...

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