Safe Speed Forums

PH contingent will know that poor old Wildy became a hit and run statistic as she pulled into a supermarket car park on her way home this week.




Pleased to report she is OK and back to the "normal sunny disposition" - she was naturally a little shaken after this incident - but she's the type to take things in her stride and just get on with things.


We have been to get some repair quotes though. Our car and we want to know exactly how much damage ... and what will be replaced.

This has led to some interesting results though.. the insurer's recommended repair centre did not even inspect the car - yet quoted a figure doubling that quoted by the dealer's own body shop who did make a full inspection of this car aged but a few months. We think we shall be insisting to our insurers that the dealer handles the repair on the basis that they are specifically trained to fix the car and we think the estimate, and examination were thoroughly prepared. The estimated repair bill was also more viable than the other quote as well. Wildy wryly remarked she could probably do the job herself und started to discuss with them how to best set about blending the paint job as well...

Nasty nuisance though as this is a claim which we will be making and on our policy ..so good job we have protected no claims

As we think one of the officers either posts or lurks on these motoring sites - I would like to thank him and his colleague for being so supportive to my wife. It is really appreciated and another reason why we support police officers overall.

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Yeah, allow me to echo that thanks. We know that the vast majority are doing a great job at street level - while government and bosses do their best to make the job impossible.

Let's all be grateful that this one was a 'little one' in a car park. Glad you're OK Wildy.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

^___^______^_______^_______^_________^

Wot 'e said. The scum that do this wanton damage should be eliminated from the gene pool, or at least prevented from procreating.

Agreed with all the above!

Hello Ted - I'm very sorry to hear about this incident and glad that no one is hurt, but it must have been quite a thump to set off the air bag.

I think you're right to insist that the repairs are carried out by somebody in whom you have confidence. In general, assuming they have a body shop (and not all sites do, of course) I would say it makes best sense to have the repair work done by a dealer for the make of car in question.

Even after all that, I tend to think you never feel quite the same about a car once it has had a serious thump. It might be time for a new one anyhow; are the ashtrays full yet?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Agreed absolutely...

Though I must admit that when I saw MM's initial posting the first idea to pass through my mind was that "Wildy" had finally been "run in" for crimes against the English language!

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Anyone know the trigger threshold? I remember seeing '12mph' somewhere but I was thinking of a more technical description. We all know how arbitrary speeds in mph are, and this is no exception. It's rate of deceleration that concerns us here. (Clearly hitting a crisp packet at 12 mph should not set off the air bag!)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It can depend on make and model to some extent. I think 15 mph into stationary seems to be "average".


I zipped across to see them when I heard .. it was quite a hit. Wildy said the entire car shuddered and rocked from the impact and even shunted back a bit even with the hand brake on full - and that she was more than a little shocked.

She's her normal bubbly self though .. bounded out to greet me, as usual - leapt into my arms and planted a big kiss on each cheek I gave her a big hug in return! Then she took me to see her car .. and blinking back her tears showed me all its "cuts and bruises" . Rather touchingly she patted the car and remarked that he will be back to "handsome hunk again soon!" She certainly loves cars..

Whether or not they decide to keep this car will be a decision for them to make. It's a new car .. bought last August. They will have to fix it to sell it and if they sell this one.. they are straightforward people and will tell a potential buyer that it has had one shock non-fault hit and been repaired by a reputable dealer's body shop. She's a non-smoker and her ashtrays are usually filled with change for parking, getting a shopping trolley from the wrack and any toll roads she may use.

Then back in her "lair" as her study is called - she showed me all the repair quotes .. with the dealer's quote looking the most realistic. The Mad Cats are - I think - more annoyed at the hit and run element. This was tea time and she had called into a town centre supermarket on her way back from her work. Normally - you would not expect to find some scrotes in stolen car speeding in a shopping area at tea time.. but it seems this car had already been spotted by a patrol car earlier that afternoon and can only assume it was apparently trying to weave out of sight


As Wildy says - had this been a more "normal" hit - she'd have insurance details and maybe ticked off the person from hitting her




She keeps her handbag tucked under the passenger car seat - just out of sight and she'd just picked up the bag and was opening the driver door when this car apparently came around a corner into the far aisle of the car park at some speed and obviously the kid "lost it" and appeared to have skidded into the front wing. She was very much shaken at the time apparently by the closeness of an airbag which may have claimed her for the worst of situations - but for one split second of luck that she had picked up that handbag a split second before this hit. I do not honestly think this family could have coped if anything had happened to her. She is very much loved and - er - does know it

She's one cool babe though.


I would also like to take this opportunity to thank my colleagues within GMP for their support to my cousin in her hour of need. From what she says - you did a sterling job of helping a lady in a moment of great distress and the support, advice given to her, help. reassurance, calls to the AA, the warm drink and blanket to staive off shock, and the wait with her until other help arrived to her deserves a fully deserved and very public thanking. This sort of action is part and parcel of the job. Our falls from grace are seized on.. but the public never seem to hear about the truly laudable jobs we do - as routine...

Whoever you are my friends, colleagues and kindred spirits. who may post or lurk on motoring sites .. . your action has done much to heal rifts between us and the public we serve and who are our harshest critics at times and best supporters at others.



I think the Mad Cats will be putting their thank you to your boss in person... and for the record CC Todd is one very fine leader in reality.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
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A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

She's never been able to spell little words. She claims this makes her a "kindred spirit to Einstein who could do "complicated" but was unable to add up 2 plus 2 as "compicated .. you understand.. and simple leave you looking for complication"

Yet she can explain some side effect from one of her "hell brews" and it seems simple. to understand

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Glad you're OK at least! My commiserations over the whole thing though.

Airbag deployment speed varies with vehicle and 9 - 15MPH seems to be typical. Very interesting that it went off whilst stationary. I didn't think any cars did this. (...or were supposed to, at least)! Mind you:

http://www.hotrodsandclassics.ca/FunnyV ... adrage.htm

So you're clearly not an isolated case.

A year or so ago, someone hit my new 807 quite hard. I was stationary and he was doing (I guess) about 15MPH on impact. He hit my driver's front corner hard enough to rip the driver's front wheel off the lower subframe and snap the drive shaft. It also moved the suspension strut top mount backwards about 6mm on the bodyshell. I had a bruise on my shoulder from the seat belt despite me being in a 2 ton MPV AND facing down-hill! Notwithstanding all that, my airbag did NOT deploy!

His airbag didn't deploy either but it was an oblique impact for him so I guess that the forward component of his velocity was too small to make it deploy.

Yeah, but that's technically meaningless. As I said earlier, hitting a crisp packet at 15mph should NOT set off the air bag.

Since they are triggered by accelerometers, we need to know the trigger conditions for the accelerometers.



I also don't see why they should NOT go off when a car starts off stationary. After all the forces are exaxtly the same going from 20mph to 0 as they are going from 0 to -20mph (i.e. backwards) due to frontal impact.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Sorry, should have explained a bit better. Yes, it's true, the velocity on impact isn't what triggers the bag, it IS the deceleration. What I was trying to say is that regardless of the deceleration, the system isn't supposed to trigger below a certain velocity. (at least I don't THINK it is)!

Interestingly, I'm off doing a crash test next week but not a real one, it's a simulated one on a sled. The lab I'm going to has a sled that works just as you suggest. The vehicle starts off stationary and is blasted backwards to provide the same effect as crashing whilst moving forwards. The good thing about that is that the high speed cameras are a lot easier to set up because the vehicle is stationary at the moment of impact. The crash pulse is, however, a particular amount of energy. If I put an accelerometer on the car's bodyshell and hit the shell with a hammer, I'm sure I'd see a several hundred "g" deceleration but it obviously wouldn't harm the occupants. That's because I wouldn't be putting enough energy into the system. The crash pulse I'll be using is specified is a 48kph velocity change over a particular time interval (can't remember just now) but it will end up being a peak deceleration of about 20 -25 "G" over (about) 30 milliseconds. Obviously it is actually 25G for a farily small part of that period.

I also have at the back of my mind, the notion that some earlier airbag systems deployed on crumple rather than deceleration. There were sensors in the deformable part of the chassis and as it crushed, it triggered the airbag. Not sure if that is still common. I'll ask the chappies at the lab.

What surprises me is that the air bag went off at all. It should NOT have deployed unless the seat was occupied.

Maybe her car is not setup that way but my 1995 BMW has a sensor in each seat and will not deploy an airbag unless is senses someone is sitting on the seat.

I find in amazing that anyone would drive that fast in a car park and would like to see the little buggers locked away for such a dangerous act. My daughters car was damaged to the tune of about 3,000 pounds (no symbol here just the $ key) when some idiot tried to turn into the spot beside her at something approaching warp speed. Noone in the car and the bastard managed to drive away after leaving a fake note under her wiper.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Admit it shook me very much. Was experience most horrid.

Am concerned why air baf erupted like that und I do not like to think about the "What If" as this ist irrelevant as Kismet was in charge here

Will be insisting my car ist repaired by dealer who ironically give best und most realistically viable quote for repair.

I think from the force I felt .. und damage . impact speed into stationary was ca 15-20 mph..at least.

As IG say.. car can be fixed quickly enough ... but to be thankful ist just a bent wing, smashed headlight und airbag issue. But.. my argument ist that this costs US to repair... or ..in spent protected NCB life line.

Ist not enough to say glibly "insured" ALL you do in reality ist spread cost of repair over 5 year rebuild of NCB und increased loading pro rata or lose a protected life line bonus und potential problem further along..

If only these could be copped und really punished for obviously ",mens rea" crime..

_________________
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UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
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Me?
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Do you mind me asking what type of car it is? I'm curious about this airbag business!

Not at all Mole ... This car is an X Type Jag.. which we bought last August. Should not have happened and we are also considering whether or not there was some fault which made it explode on impact Wildy says she did not even see this car,... but then again .. she'd parked up very neatly, switched off the engine and was just beginning to open the driver's door when this car hit a stationary vehicle. The says the impact was sufficient to rock this car and make it move and inch or so backwards even with a hand brake applied We reckon this car was hit at at least 20 mph and maybe a little over this given the damage to the font wing and headlamp though.. but this is also crumple zone too.

Wildy was very shaken.. understandably so ..at the time - but as said ..she's that feisty type
She's more angry that these were scrotes who did a runner..... and the car was an old early 90s Chavalier which were very sturdy, solid and quite nice cars in their day..and which some lady owner had reported as stolen ...

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Airbags still work with the keys out?
Now that's scary.

_________________
Andrew.

Why we are thinking there was a fault somewhere with this new car because of this.

I like to think some things happen for a reason.. and just maybe a fault with this car's airbag system was "the reason"

I also like to think that what comes around goes around .. and those little oiks will get their come-uppance some time .

I am just thankful our kids were not in the car and that Wildy is her usual fun loving self.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I think a 20 MPH impact would have moved the car a couple of FEET! (several yards without the handbrake on)! Was it an automatic and was it also in "park"?

It was in neutral.. I like to have a manual : I like to feel in control .. und I think "responsible" mean "thinking on behalf on self und those depending on that person"

Ist an X Type Sport und very much a handsome und responsive sassy "hunk" He was very beautifully handsome und sexy with it - und will be again when mended. Ist only really cosmetic to wing .. ist the airbag aspect which worry me though.

But I think this car in reality hit at some speed .. but crumple zone und overall engineering bore the brunt well enough for car occupants und anything "external" adequately if honest.

But these idiot did hit at inappropriate speed for car park in a stolen car.. und I suppose ist better they hit a car than a person with a shopping trolley in reality. He ist a mean to drive .. pure bliss und so responsive to slightest feather of touch. I suppose ist why these cars must be out of reach to new drivers.. the difference between the middling cars we bought for the kittens und these Jags (Ted has the Estate version .... ist family car version und I am .. very "sporty" und speedy thing matter most after all .... und Jub Jub will splutter into his muesli und tut tut at me .. as will B Cyclist und someone on a cycling fora will fart und have the typing runny cowpat over this post - "naughty felines to like fast felines "


Seriously..I do drive at safest speed to COAST und ist compliant to law at all time. I let my feline stealth speed roar on my track days - und I think my Jag seriously stealth stalk those Turbo Wolfgangs in Germany

feline triumph over canine if you like in Germany


I do learn something else though.. some people tell me we are not insured on car parks as not "public highway". That cannot surely be right as this give carte blanche to dink doors with doors und trolleys und so on.. I have read policy und it does not say anything about this in small print


We have protected no claims.. und a very small discount for taking trouble to ensure we are very much safety driven as a family unit.

Have quote.. am inclined to just pay und have done with it. on above basis... but have not yet contacted insurers as the insurer's favoured centre ist not manufacturer approved und do not want to have fight with them over this. .as it affect warranty of this car as well. Also - if the car park nature mena "not insured on this basis" - then I inform und they place this on record und "load" perhaps?

After the experience in aftermath of biggest trauma of my life to date.. und a 6 year battle to get my rights und rights for his widow in process.. I will never trust insurers ever again. to be honest. Ist why the Swiss are realists to the cyclist wallies over the changes to Code. Insurers do not like parting with cash und will fleece everyone regardless. I know the silliest of the idiots appear to really hate us over the home truths we post up.. but in this world.. we must be realists und face truth head on. Better to do this than be duped und then bitter und resentful.

Dealer quote ist realistic und a lot less than I thought. Ist affordable to us in reality. Insurance approved body shop was a scammyover-inflated joke..und they said they would take photos of the damages und repair .. but said I would not be entitled to see this evidence. I was very blunt with them.. my car.. ist not on any HP or other agreement. I bought it outright.. with the cash we put aside into our "pleasure account" .. basically we assess the depreciation per month und add 10% to it.. und pay over some cash into this. Ist amazing how this cash which we regard as "spent" build up over a four year period und pay for the new arrival.

I could probably do a repair just as competently und perhaps the dealer realise this und ist realistic on this basis

It help to make it known you have some knowledge und a little knowledge ist also POWER to your elbow.

I accept that I was very lucky here.. could have been much worse. Und luck depend on point of view as I was unlucky to have been hit like that as well.. :rolleyes:

I hope Jub und B Cyclist read this thread... they may gloat perhaps on "Dark side" as they call it Which also suggest they know the idiots are big problem und give cycling a very bad name und no favours.. ... but the fact they post here und Jub Jub did reply to me on this site, und my husband und IG without vitriol show maybe he ist learning that there are serious issues to address und that perhaps current emphasis on speed issue ist not "road safety led" ... und I think he really know who are the real trolling idiots anyway .. to be fair to our "pet troll" here.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!