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 Post subject: The Christmas Spirit?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 17:01 
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Anyone else feel Christmas is a bit overdone?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 17:03 
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Nope. I love it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 17:07 
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PeterE wrote:
Anyone else feel Christmas is a bit overdone?


Overdone, no. Overcommercialised, yes.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 17:13 
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They have had christmas bags in the coop since the end of october and christmas music in the for several weeks already. To even things out a bit I won't be putting any christmas decorations up in, on or near my house or any thing else that belongs to be.

Bar humbug I say


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 20:45 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Anyone else feel Christmas is a bit overdone?


Overdone, no. Overcommercialised, yes.



:yesyes:

People seem to think it is spend spend time. It upsets me that people seem to belive that in order to have a good christmas they must spend loads of money. I also people put to much pressure on themselves to have the "perfect christmas"

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 22:25 
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http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

Quote:
Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps.




"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measure by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! How dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest man that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus! Thank GOD! He lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.


Obviously this was the NEW YORK Sun, as the statement would be "If you see it in The Sun, it's garbage"if it was in the UK tabloid of the same name!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 02:49 
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Not Christian so to me it's only nice in as much as it's a great time to catch up with friends and family. It holds no religious significance.

In that respect I like Christmas.

Hate the way it's being turned into a major retail event. The brother in law used to work for a well known supermarket chain and they had the Xmas stock in at the end of August. :loco:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 04:26 
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The thing I don't like is the guilt.
The guilt people try and make you feel if you don't buy something for everyone you know. The guilt you feel that if you did buy something they might not like it. The guilt that someone gave you a present 'better' than what you gave them.

I try to avoid it all. :(

Edit: And the guilt people make you feel if you aren't "in the christmas spirit"!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 08:28 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
...they had the Xmas stock in at the end of August. :loco:

Not wishing to pick on SE, but spelling Christmas as "Xmas" really gets up my nose. It epitomises the commercialisation that's replaced the true meaning of Christmas because it crosses Christ out of his own birthday.

And yes, IMO Christmas is now far too commercialised.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 09:08 
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but spelling Christmas as "Xmas" really gets up my nose. It epitomises the commercialisation that's replaced the true meaning of Christmas because it crosses Christ out of his own birthday.


This is a really common misconception and is explained better than I could here

A lot of what christmas really is all about has been lost and been replaced with stressing over giving everyone in work a christmas card and posting them to all friends and family. Even people who llive in the same house exchange cards. Incidentally - have you evr noticed just how many cards have anything to do with christmas on them? They are usually plastered with snowmen, robins, or some cute fluffy animal.

Last year it was impossible to buy an advent calender in my local tesco's - there were plenty of "countdown" calenders and "holiday" calenders but not one advent calendar. Something that has changed this year i might add.

At the end of the day this is (was?) a christian country and I don't think anyone should feel embarressed or guilty about celebrating any christian holiday. I don't think they exclude any non christians or offend them in the same way I would not offended by anyone in a bhuddist/muslem/hindu country if I was living there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:45 
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4by4 wrote:
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but spelling Christmas as "Xmas" really gets up my nose. It epitomises the commercialisation that's replaced the true meaning of Christmas because it crosses Christ out of his own birthday.


This is a really common misconception and is explained better than I could here

That doesn't really address the issue. The Snopes article claims that X is really the Greek letter chi. However, "Chimas" really doesn't work and "Christmas" is spelled using the Latin alphabet, not Greek. In any case, the most important thing about Christmas should be the Christ himself, who deserves for his title to be unabbreviated, and an explanation of the origin of the abbreviation doesn't change that.

Snopes wrote:
None of this means that Christians (and others) aren't justified in feeling slighted when people write 'Xmas' rather than 'Christmas,'


Religion is all about belief. I believe that we've lost the true meaning of Christmas. Christians believe that the Christ came to save us from our sins yet commercial Christmas encourages most of the seven deadly sins - <fe>a fine way to celebrate Jesus's birthday.</fe>

Commercial Christmas forgets that we're meant to be celebrating the day the Christ was born in flesh and blood; that Christmas presents are mere tokens to remind of the significant birthday gifts given to him on that day. Commercial Christmas is all about the presents and forgets the reason behind them - it crosses Christ out of Christmas, just like "Xmas".

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:02 
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I agree 100% with everything Willcove has written above.

I support a separate, secular festival (call it Winterval if you like) so we can keep Christmas as a Christian celebration.

Whatever it takes to stop drunken yobs thinking it would be a really "good idea" to get tanked up beyond all sense on Christmas Eve then turn up at Midnight Mass only to throw up, start fights, snore loudly in a pew or disrupt the worship and celebration of others in lots of ways.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:15 
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What about us Pagans :twisted: - the bloody Christians came over and hi-jacked our festivals, came up with a huge amount of misinformation and propaganda and vilified us. But the vast majority of the original Pagan symbolism survives in the Christmas tradition.

Actually I am not a pagan, just an atheist (nominally christian to keep the parents happy), but I do know some people that are. It should be remembered that Christ almost certainly wasn't born any-time near December. The pagan midwinter festivals were simply hijacked. The sacred Mistletoe, the Yule log, the Feasting, the giving of Presents - none of these have anything to do with Christ, and at the time of Christs birth the celebration of birthdays was a pagan tradition.

According to this Christian Source Shepards in the holy land only tend their flocks by night between March and November (its too cold in mid-winter), and St. Francis of Assissi in 1223 created the manger scene complete with animals.

I would argue that with the all but token abandonment of Christianity by the vast majority of UK, we are actually reverting back to the Pagan traditions. Still far to much commercialism though :( .


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:46 
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At the end of the day I dont think an internet forum is the ideal place for a religious discussion since it is very easy for people to take offence to very small differnces in view. For that reason i'mm going to give the pagan christmas debate a wide berth! :)

What I will harp on about is the xmas issue.

My whole point is that so many take offence to the term xmas and usually for the wrong reasons.


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That doesn't really address the issue. The Snopes article claims that X is really the Greek letter chi. However, "Chimas" really doesn't work and "Christmas" is spelled using the Latin alphabet, not Gree


That may be true - How many times have you been in a catholic church and noticed the PX symbol? This comes from the the beggining of the greek word for christos and is used commonly as a monogram for jesus christ. I dont see many people taking offence to this but they do to xmas.

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Whatever it takes to stop drunken yobs thinking it would be a really "good idea" to get tanked up beyond all sense on Christmas Eve then turn up at Midnight Mass only to throw up, start fights, snore loudly in a pew or disrupt the worship and celebration of others in lots of ways


Is this a common occurrance in your church? I ask this because I don't ever recall seeing behaviour like that and can't really visualise it ever happening for real without someone taking action against it.

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crosses Christ out of Christmas


Is a catchy slogan that is easy for the masses (pardon the pun) to take on board without too much thought - just like speed kills.

Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:17 
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Well, I agree with Rewolf. Yuletide is an ancient fesival and basically the last good meal before the winter starvation begins. Its a time of thanksgiving and mainly a celebration of the rebirth of the sun.

http://www.equinox-and-solstice.com/

I'm also an atheist and I see christmas as a good excuse to eat and drink too much, see friends and generally enjoy myself.

I do agree that its way too overcommercialised now though - I REALLY don't want to buy decorations in September :x


For those who celebrate a religious festival at this time of year, good for you. I choose not to.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 13:23 
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4by4 wrote:
Quote:
Whatever it takes to stop drunken yobs thinking it would be a really "good idea" to get tanked up beyond all sense on Christmas Eve then turn up at Midnight Mass only to throw up, start fights, snore loudly in a pew or disrupt the worship and celebration of others in lots of ways


Is this a common occurrance in your church? I ask this because I don't ever recall seeing behaviour like that and can't really visualise it ever happening for real without someone taking action against it.


These are all things that I have seen at either our church or my parents - for a few years my parent church had bouncers on the doors.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 13:43 
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Willcove, it was late and I was being lazy!!

Mea Culpa.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 13:50 
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I'm an atheist. I've never had any object to having a holiday where people buy each other gifts and try to be nice to each other (shame they can't manage it the rest of the year though).

To my family "Christmas" is usually a couple of weeks off work with a bit of socialising and indulging, punctuated by two days when the shops are shut and we eat too much and all exchange modest gifts. Makes a nice break.

If I WAS a Christian, I think I'd be a bit p'ed off with the way many people behave though. I'm appalled by the fact that families on modest incomes think their "Christmas" is ruined of they can't spend 100s (even 1000s) of pounds on presents, food and booze...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 14:05 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
I do agree that its way too overcommercialised now though - I REALLY don't want to buy decorations in September :x

Good forward planning means buying them in January at vastly reduced prices :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 14:13 
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Rewolf wrote:
Sixy_the_red wrote:
I do agree that its way too overcommercialised now though - I REALLY don't want to buy decorations in September :x

Good forward planning means buying them in January at vastly reduced prices :D


You tight b*stard! :D (good plan!)

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