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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 23:14 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 00:14
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Hi, my name is Ross Brindley.

Although this "sticky" has of course been here since well before I joined this forum I only looked at it just now due to the recent posts by Neil and MrsMiggins. So, sorry for not introducing myself properly in the appropriate place, but here goes.

I am an Aussie from Victoria and I live in what could be loosely described as a "police state". We have some of the harshest road laws I have ever heard of and as an avid motorist I feel targeted and harassed every time I use the roads.

We have speed cameras everywhere and now even have speed cameras built into red light cameras so that in the event you run a red light you can now be booked for speeding as well. I do not condone running red lights but do object to being booked for speeding when I increase speed slightly to get across the intersection before the red light comes on.

We have the most absurd and unfair speed enforcement I have ever heard of. We can be booked for exceeding the speed limit by 3kph (2mph) and receive a fine for $110 and 1 point on our licence even though the federal law states that a speedometer must be accurate to within 10%.

Our national maximum speed limit is 100kph (60mph) and if we exceed any speed limit by more than 25kph (15mph) we get 4 points added to our licence and lose it for 3 months. You can elect to lose it for 6 months which cleans the slate or 3 months and the points stay and you are on probation for 12 months (2mph over the limit and you lose your licence again).

One a few motorways the limit is 110kph (66mph) but if anyone is caught travelling over 125kph (75mph) the exceeding 25kph rule is applied. So, travelling only 15kph (9mph) over the limit on one of these motorways is enough to lose your licence for 3 months.

I found this site when searching for speed related web sites and 100% support Paul in the research work he is doing. I only wish I had the money to be able to donate more than the membership.

The average copper has my total support but we also have a “Traffic Operations Group” section to the police force and these guys have to have a humour lobotomy before they can join. Unfortunately they use about as much discretion as a speed camera and so they place the entire traffic plod into the same barrel as the cameras in the eyes of most of the public.

I love driving fast and I love sliding my car and smoking the tyres but I do all of that on the race track and the skid pan and drive with due care and attention while on the road with other road users. I only look at the speedo because of speed cameras as I believe that speed should be appropriate to the conditions, not to some numbers on a sign.

[/end rant]

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:22 
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:11
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Location: Aberdare
MrsMiggins wrote:
NEIL JEFFREYS wrote:
Infidell :( , just wait till you get done for obstruct police

So can I take it that arrive alive use Police officers and not civvies in their vans then?


Who the heck are arive alive :?: Speed camera vans in our area are operated by police officers

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:31 
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NEIL JEFFREYS wrote:
Who the heck are arive alive :?: Speed camera vans in our area are operated by police officers


http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/

or as we prefer...

http://www.arrivedeprived.org.uk/

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Speed camera policy Kills


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:32 
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:11
Posts: 198
Location: Aberdare
Um suppose I should contribute to the spirit of this thread.
My name is obvious, as is my occupation. I'm part of a pro active policing team responsible for 3 areas, which have been identified as being impoverished, and recieve funding from the EU for improvements. Part of this involves our team. We intergrate with the community, and have over a period of time become well known and trusted. Intelligence is gathered from the community, and used to target criminals in our area. Had a drugs bust last month and found £23,000 worth of drugs :)

Thats enough about work.
I am a VERY keen cyclist, and this year did a sponsored ride over the Alps on behalf of a childrens hospice. I'll metion some of the climbs (doubt many motorists will know these) Mont Ventoux, Col de Glandone, Col de Madolene, Alpe d huez to name but a few.
I am quite a pertrol head, and currently own a 2ltr audi A6. Next year I hope to buy my in laws A4 2.4ltr V6 :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:36 
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Location: Aberdare
Gizmo wrote:
NEIL JEFFREYS wrote:
Who the heck are arive alive :?: Speed camera vans in our area are operated by police officers


http://www.arrivealive.org.uk/

or as we prefer...

http://www.arrivedeprived.org.uk/


Should have known it would be something to do with the boys up north :roll:

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:57 
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NEIL JEFFREYS wrote:
Should have known it would be something to do with the boys up north :roll:


Didn't know there was a north/south divide in Wales....... :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:02 
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:11
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Location: Aberdare
Gizmo wrote:
NEIL JEFFREYS wrote:
Should have known it would be something to do with the boys up north :roll:


Didn't know there was a north/south divide in Wales....... :lol:


Oh yes, the top half (most northerly) is known as North Wales, the bottom bit (most southernly) is known as South Wales, and there's a bit in the middle called mid wales :D :D . Oh yes and there's Cardiff :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 19:38 
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Hello everyone, yet another visitor from Cycling+.

I try to see all sides of the many arguments that crop up on this site and C+. But I avoid forum-based debates because they are almost always dominated by ignorant extremists with fixed views. I don’t mind admitting that I’m an ex-motorcyclist who used to charge around at 150+ with false plates. I’m quite relieved to have made it alive this far, and am now happy to rely exclusively on cycling combined with public transport. No, I’m not banned! I even have a clean insurance history, and a motorcycle parked outside, but I haven’t touched it for 6 months and I’ll probably sell it. Seems to me that engines bring out the aggressive selfish side of far too many men, me included.

My view on speed cameras is that they have made British roads a paradise for law breaking drivers these days because they are used to justify huge cuts in the numbers of traffic police. Cameras were never hard to spot even when they were grey. Now that they’re yellow you can hardly claim to be paying attention to the road if you fail to notice one. Don’t you remember the days when you needed to be perpetually checking for unmarked police cars? Speeders have it easy now! One day our speeds will be constantly monitored by satellites, and then you’ll really wish you could turn the clock back to 2005!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 19:13 
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Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Eurostar's claims spawned a discussion. I split it to a new topic:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1497

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 19:18 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:52
Posts: 23
Roy Gardiner.

Keen cyclist. Member of several major cycling organisations, competitor, commuter (much of the time) Essex-City and West End for 20 years. Webmaster for the League of Veteran Racing Cyclists.

Keen motorist. Past owner of 1971 Lotus Elan, 1981 BMW M535, now own 1992 Lexus LS400, 1981 Daimler Double Six VDP which I've had for 18 years.

My views on motoring.
  • The vast majority of motorists are careful and considerate. But there are so many motorists that the 1 in 100 inconsiderate, 1 in 1000 homicidal manic, cause big problems
  • Law enforcement on minor matters is too harsh, on major matters far too lenient. Allowing someone who never took a lesson or passed a test, speeding double the limit on the wrong side of the road to kill someone and be fined is a scandal.
  • Revenue raising from parking, speeding and other minor offences should be stopped
  • Many speed limits are too low, some are too high.
  • Cameras do cause abberant action - sudden braking and the like - and this needs to be addressed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 18:36 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 15:26
Posts: 7
Location: Manchester
My Name's Andy. I post under SILVERSIXX.

I pretty much come from the same angle as most of you. I thoroughly enjoy driving and have also raced successfully. I have built road and race cars and have also studied Police driving systems as well the usual IAM stuff.

I started driving in 1991. Since then of course costs have spiralled and i HATE most driving conditions in the UK : you can't go above 3 miles an hour in traffic (do you know how bad a cars mpg is at that speed??!!) and then once you do get out of the traffic you're constantly scanning every overpass, sliproad, underpass, nook, cranny etc... for talivans or scameras. Now some of you may not like what i've done : i have invested in varioius pieces of tested technology on my vehicle to help avoid being nicked (use your imagination...). I AM NOT PROUD OF THIS. Sadly though as we are learning more and more in the world today : push ordinary people far enough without giving them an alternative (see my none of the above thread in general chat) and you'll be STAGGERED what they'll do to try and balance the situation out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 00:11 
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:38
Posts: 73
Location: South Bucks
Hi all... I'm John, and I'm an IT consultant from South Bucks. (What is this, Motorists Anonymous? :))

My credentials... been driving for 17 years, between 12K and 30K briskly driven miles a year. Never been stopped by the Police for anything. Never had a parking ticket. Just one (untypical) accident that was to any degree my fault, at about 5mph, and despite what Roadcraft says, I learned a lot from it.

Speeding tickets: none for 13 years, then one in 2001 and one in 2002, as I shall describe for you.

10am on a bright sunny Sunday morning, on the A45 heading towards Daventry out of Weedon in Northants. I'm behind a truck and two cars clambering uphill out of the village at about 20 in a 30 limit. There are two lanes on the uphill side of the road. Five seconds later I've dispatched the cars and truck. A week later I get the ticket from the scamera van. At the time I was furious because as far as I could see, I was using the road for the purpose it was designed for, and my terminal velocity was simply the consequence of a safe overtake. They have since modified the road so there is now only ONE lane uphill out of Weedon village.

A year later, 9am on a weekday morning, on the M4 in south Wales, heading for Swansea on business. Somewhere in the vicinity of Bridgend there's a scamera van on a bridge. It must have been like spearing fish in a barrel, all they had to do was sit there and zap away. It had nothing to do with road safety and it hasn't changed my attitude or speed while on the motorway one little bit.

It's often claimed that the cameras are there to make money, which may be partly true, in as much as they pay for themselves. (They may make a few tens of millions surplus, but it isn't much, in the grand scheme of things.) I suspect that their primary, unwritten purpose is to make driving unpleasant; if the Government can't tax you off the road, then they'll police you off the road, or at least make the whole business so regulated and restricted that you consider an alternative. Any safety benefits are secondary. (Nearly twice as many people every year are killed in hospital by MRSA as are killed by road accidents.) The safety angle is just the one that will wash with Joe Public and the Police, in the short term anyway.

They haven't a snowflake's chance in hell but it seems they are trying it regardless.

To those who say it's the law and if you don't want to get caught you shouldn't break it... I say I AM NOT A SHEEP and I will question bad laws. What is "safe"? On the motorway a "safe" speed could be anything from under 20mph to over 140mph depending on the road, weather, car, driver, other traffic... the 70mph limit is a line in the sand drawn by a politician in 1965 when the average car had drum brakes and cross-ply tyres.

You don't hear anyone complaining about traffic-light cameras. The problem arises when you apply remote-control, black-and-white law enforcement to what is a profoundly grey area.

And another thing... a system which compels you to provide admissible evidence that you were the driver, if you were driving, is contrary to natural justice. Whatever your thoughts on the American legal system, at least they have the Fifth Amendment. We have what amounts to a forced confession: stay silent, and you get fined. Tell the truth, and you get fined. Tell lies, and you go to jail.

And another thing... as any good child psychologist or dog trainer will tell you, punishment for misbehaviour should be administered on the spot. A ticking-off from Teacher is far more effective than sixty lines and three years' detention via a bit of paper a week after the event. Why do you think Speed Indicating Devices (SIDs) are so effective? Because the message is immediate and personal: "Yes, you!"

Readers may care to check out the Bucks County Council website where there is a section about proposed "improvements" to the A355 between Slough and Beaconsfield, primarily to dissuade trucks from using it as a route to the M40. Interestingly the proposals haven't been implemented (yet?). Two parts caught my attention: one suggesting the introduction of traffic signals and lower speed limits to deliberately cause congestion and discourage people from using the road, and one remarking that in one 40mph section (quite reasonable, and already covered by a Gatso which probably doesn't get much business), although there had been no accidents, the speed limit should be lowered to 30 because pedestrians felt intimidated. Presumably when they no longer feel intimidated they'll start jaywalking and the accident rate will go up! Oh, and although you can download most of the report online, if you want the appendices containing the interesting bits, such as accident statistics, you'll have to email the council and explain why.

To finish - I'm a libertarian by inclination and my opinion of politicians ranges from distrustful to unprintable. I would wish to be judged on how I drive fast, rather than how fast I drive.

I could go on and on for hours but I'll shut up. I haven't even mentioned the environment yet!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 03:22 
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I am 41 years of age and in my 23 years of driving I have luckily only had 2 speeding tickets, first one was in 1986 while chauffering somebody at 1am in the morning along a 4 lane wide A road, no other traffic apart from the police car following me at a discrete distance. :evil:
The second was in 2000 coming off the M61 onto the A666, wife was talking to me and I didn't reduce speed quickly enough and so was still doing 58 as I got into the 50. Flash - Flash. :(

Funny thing is that I now run the Radar Detector Shop
http://www.radar-detector-shop.co.uk/ and we have many police officer customers who are themselves fed up with the amount of speedtraps they are coming across.

In 1986 I passed my IAM test and also went on to do the Merit course which was a further advanced driver course up to police standard.
The fact is that if more people would take the IAM course this in itself would be far more effective at reducing road accidents. I have always got p****d off when I hear about there being a new initiative that will help to reduce accidents etc. Just get all drivers to pass the IAM course within 1 year of passing their standard DOT test and also have to retake the IAM test every few years.
Oh and also crush the car of anybody that hogs the centre or third lane. If the Police spent as much on this issue as they do on cameras it would be far more worthwhile. It would reduce road rage and clear the motorways far quicker, why don't they realise the importance of this. If a car wishes to use the middle or outside lane at high speed they would get to the end of their journey a lot quicker and so there would be one less car on the road.

Rant over, thanks for listening.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 03:33 
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Location: Stockport, Cheshire
RDS wrote:
The second was in 2000 coming off the M61 onto the A666, wife was talking to me and I didn't reduce speed quickly enough and so was still doing 58 as I got into the 50. Flash - Flash. :(

The A666 used to be NSL (70) and still should be, but it was reduced to 50 because of the car-hating numpties on Bolton Council.

The northbound camera coming off the M61 used to be totally concealed, so it's hardly surprising you got done by it :(

It's now been made more visible, but the 50 limit is still a sick joke :twisted:

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 18:50 
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I am not really called Bill

happy daze :lol:

rgds
Bill ,


Last edited by Bill on Mon Mar 07, 2005 17:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:33 
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My name is Richard, I'm 36, live in Fife and have been driving since 1987.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:43 
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Reblack68 wrote:
My name is Richard, I'm 36, live in Fife and have been driving since 1987.


You must be very tired then :D (sorry, couldn't resist)

Welcome, Richard - hope you enjoy the forum

Cheers
Peter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:45 
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Posts: 25
Location: Wales, Newport/Cardiff
My name is Donna

I live in Wales, though I was raised in Ireland.

I came here after receiving information about the protest on the M4 and I really wanted to hear what peoples reasons were for this kind of action.

I find these types of action a bit pointless (Much like the Fuel strikes/demos) and I guess I would like to try and understand them a bit more.

I find it really easy to stay at 70mph on the motorway and to keep an eye on signs, rules of the road etc so I guess I am confused about why others seem to get 'caught' speeding so often (And then complain)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 13:55 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 22:00
Posts: 193
Location: Rutland
Live in Rutland, a rural area with lovely views ( apart from the huge number of signs the council are putting to warn of Speed Cameras - i don't need signs to tell me there may be a camera, have always assumed every bend, bridge etc hides a Traffic Car and drive accordingly ).

Like Byny i have no problem sticking to speed limits, if i do exceed NSL then it is a choice i made so if i get caught then only have myself to blame, and have never had any points on my licence.

30/40/50 limits i consider it important to respect, NSL used to mean derestricted and i feel that these roads should be policed with discretion.

Passed IAM test about 1992/3, currently training for RoSPA test, motorbike licence last september, also a cyclist, and a pedestrian - have even been known to use public transport :)

My objection to Speed Cameras is only that they are put forward as a cure for Road Safety problems, yet completely fail to tackle nearly all causes of accidents.

A Traffic Car may well stop you for exceeding the speed limit, but is also on the look out for ALL forms of dangerous driving - including driving too fast but BELOW the set limit.

Thats where Road Safety funding should be spent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 13:56 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
i am a truck driver and i use my spare time involving myself with various websites/campaigns to give my colleagues an easier and more rewarding life. i came across this website by trawling through the links on a different website looking for links to add to the website that i am a moderator on. i found the M4 protest and decided that this would be a good site to keep an eye on. i know that most of the members on my site are very anti scamera too and would find this very interesting. if any of the truckers here are interested in having their views heard about the transport industry, please feel free to click on my website link. everyone else is welcome to have a look too. chances are, you would find some topics which would shock you. these are the things that we have to deal with every day :!:

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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


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