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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:31 
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hairyben wrote:
... perhaps, the grass is always greener though and you can't run away from your own perceptions of the world. I do plan to take a holiday in canada sometime though and perhaps scout the place out.

The point of emigration is not necessarily that the regime in your new home is "better" than that you are leaving. For me, an issue would be a much lower population density than the UK. This salves all kinds of problems.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:44 
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civil engineer wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
civil engineer wrote:
who's quote?

do you concur with it?

Zzzzzzz.


I can bore for whales!


Go get em tiger. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 14:22 
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Well, all I'll say is don't go to Saudi: -

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/ZAWYA20031124051413

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 19:44 
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malcolmw wrote:
The point of emigration is not necessarily that the regime in your new home is "better" than that you are leaving. For me, an issue would be a much lower population density than the UK. This salves all kinds of problems.


Perhaps a thought from someone who has been there & done that -----


20 odd years ago me & Mrs B had had our fill of Maggies wonderful Britain.Working shifts, earning a very good wage , I was taxed to the hilt.

We saw an ad for Zimbabwe, went ,and for the first two years found it paradise. Beautiful climate ( bit hot ), great job - left to my own devices to get on with it as long as it got done, almost free housing/ electricity /water --all too good to be true. Then came the reality of politics - i was in the area when a politician was murdered/ people carrying the wrong party card had problems---etc. Fortunately due to my connections/ job / etc i was considered "neutral " and had the protection of the "Party ". After that we saw a mass excodus to RSA and UK. At the end my marvellous salary was worth peanuts - and my pension fund - great out there - but nice wall paper if taken out.
So a tale of caution - think hard before you jump .

Oh- we had a great life for two/three years , but then the cookie crumbled.

And when we tried to get out and take enough to start a new life - tough you can't take it with you. And back in the UK - try telling that to the DSS -.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 09:15 
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Zimbabwe wasn't the best choice but I understand hindsight is a wonderful thing. Sorry it didn't work out for you Botach.

The people I know who have emigrated have gone to such places as America, Canada, Australia and numerous European countries. I'm losing count of how many have gone to Spain.

I favour America myself. Would never have come back here but for personal reasons :( Most of those reasons are gone now so who knows what the future holds :roll:

The truth is, the grass is greener elsewhere but you have to choose carefully, as you have said.

I had an email just the other day from an Occupational Therapist who went to Canada, he found true love there too. It's a familiar story I hear all the time. This country will become a nation of immigrants one day. Here's what he wrote: -

"Hi there
Things here go mostly well. Have just got my permanent residency status with immigration which means I will have a lot more option work wise, but for now I'm just carrying on. Enjoying it more though.
Getting hot out there and hoping to enjoy the summer. Its mostly a quiet life for me - tinkering in the yard (woodwork at the moment) is how I spend most of my evenings. Sounds boring? Maybe, but I'm happy
"

The most salient part for me is "I'm happy". Interestingly, he got done for speeding over here in a pathetic 'safe to go quicker but tough, your nicked' scenario which helped push him over the edge. If you can't drive to do your work or have the mobility to enjoy a nice social life, exactly what does the government think you are going to do? :loco:

Another skill this country needs which has gone abroad for good.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 09:55 
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Open message to everyone who says "I'm thinking of leaving the country":

Cheerio then, don't let the door catch your arse as you leave.

P.S. Don't come back whinging, you've made your choice, no-one cares.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:33 
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handy wrote:
Open message to everyone who says "I'm thinking of leaving the country":

Cheerio then, don't let the door catch your arse as you leave.

P.S. Don't come back whinging, you've made your choice, no-one cares.


I care. So you're wrong there.

I've spent most of my life being proud to be British, but now I'm frequently ashamed to be British.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:00 
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I find it ironic that some of those who complain so vociferously about problems from 'immigration' seem to think the solution is to go and live in another country. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:10 
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Icandoit wrote:
I find it ironic that some of those who complain so vociferously about problems from 'immigration' seem to think the solution is to go and live in another country. :roll:


I'm not one of those complainers, but issues of 'economic migration' can easily square your circle. It could be, for example, not the numbers immigrating, but the social or economic conditions that they bring with them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:59 
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Icandoit wrote:
I find it ironic that some of those who complain so vociferously about problems from 'immigration' seem to think the solution is to go and live in another country. :roll:


So what do you say to those people born and bred here who no longer "fit in" with the current political, economic and social climates?
What else is there for them to do? Put up and shut up maybe?
What do you say to someone like me who feels lost, a stranger in his own country?
Someone who feels pressurised and harassed for being the wrong colour/race/religion and sin of sins- someone who drives a car?

What do you say to someone like me?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:04 
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DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:28 
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Icandoit wrote:
DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye


You don’t work for the government do you? Your reply is typical of what I would expect from our present day government. When a government puts its own agenda before the people it’s supposed to represent and, does nothing when those people oppose them or its agenda, It’s starting to become clearer to me that this government couldn’t care less what people think and, I don’t expect any other government to be any different. So what other options are there but to look further afield.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:34 
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Icandoit wrote:
DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye

Typical response of a woolly, hand-wringing, liberal, "let's embrace multiculturalism and all it's benefits" mindset, regardless of the indigenous population.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:35 
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Dixie wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye


You don’t work for the government do you? Your reply is typical of what I would expect from our present day government. When a government puts its own agenda before the people it’s supposed to represent and, does nothing when those people oppose them or its agenda, It’s starting to become clearer to me that this government couldn’t care less what people think and, I don’t expect any other government to be any different. So what other options are there but to look further afield.


yeah, because the governments in [insert name of any other country you care to mention] are SURE to listen to utopia-seeking migrants.

You DO make me laugh!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:43 
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handy wrote:
Dixie wrote:
Icandoit wrote:
DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye


You don’t work for the government do you? Your reply is typical of what I would expect from our present day government. When a government puts its own agenda before the people it’s supposed to represent and, does nothing when those people oppose them or its agenda, It’s starting to become clearer to me that this government couldn’t care less what people think and, I don’t expect any other government to be any different. So what other options are there but to look further afield.


yeah, because the governments in [insert name of any other country you care to mention] are SURE to listen to utopia-seeking migrants.

You DO make me laugh!

You mean a bit like how OUR government welcomes and listens to migrants? :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:56 
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Icandoit wrote:
DeltaF wrote:
What do you say to someone like me?

'Bye


Fine. Then the country says "bye" to another skilled person to the detriment of the local economy, to be replaced with what? Someone who cant even speak ( or wont) the language and who will likely burden the system not contribute to it. Thus a rather large flaw in your flippant remark ( i presume it was actually your "solution"? ) is exposed.
Im born of england yet im told "bye" ( effectively told to get out) when i raise a serious question.
Nice one pal, thanks for re-enforcing the alienation of those this country can ill afford to lose.

I hope youll be very happy paying your raised tax levels for your non english speaking, benefit scrounging, scam-mongering slavetrading neighbours to live off.

If you represent the calibre of those who will remain then ill be glad to f'ck off out.
Enjoy yourself.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 13:04 
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handy wrote:

yeah, because the governments in [insert name of any other country you care to mention] are SURE to listen to utopia-seeking migrants.

You DO make me laugh!


I cant speak for anyone else, but im not looking for utopia, never have been.
I just want to live my life free of state interference and be happy doing whatever it is i end up doing.
If that means a wife and 3 kids in a ramshackle hut in the middle of nowhere chopping wood, then so be it, as long as i,we, are happy that way then to me thats all that matters.
I dont pursue wealth and materials possesions in any way like the majority do because its of no real use to have so much when it just makes you miserable. Wtf do i want with a 38inch plasma tv? Theres nothing to see on it. Id rather spend my time out digging the garden and tinkering with the car than sit there watching that crap.
So no, im not chasing utopia, not a wealth based one, i just want to be happy and free to do whatever.

Does that make you laugh?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 13:14 
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The irony in some of the recent comments on this thread (that is titled 'Too scared to speak our mind') are obviously lost on those posting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 13:19 
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DeltaF wrote:
handy wrote:

yeah, because the governments in [insert name of any other country you care to mention] are SURE to listen to utopia-seeking migrants.

You DO make me laugh!


I cant speak for anyone else, but im not looking for utopia, never have been.
I just want to live my life free of state interference and be happy doing whatever it is i end up doing.
If that means a wife and 3 kids in a ramshackle hut in the middle of nowhere chopping wood, then so be it, as long as i,we, are happy that way then to me thats all that matters.
I dont pursue wealth and materials possesions in any way like the majority do because its of no real use to have so much when it just makes you miserable. Wtf do i want with a 38inch plasma tv? Theres nothing to see on it. Id rather spend my time out digging the garden and tinkering with the car than sit there watching that crap.
So no, im not chasing utopia, not a wealth based one, i just want to be happy and free to do whatever.

Does that make you laugh?


nope, it makes me a little upset on your behalf, because despite having all the things that should make you happy, you still can't see it.


R. Carlson in Don't Sweat the Small Stuff - and it's All Small Stuff wrote:
Be Happy Where You Are

"Sadly, many of us continually postpone our happiness - indefinitely. It's not that we consciously set out to do so, but that we keep convincing ourselves, Someday I'll be happy.' We tell ourselves we'll be happy when our bills are paid, when we get out of school, get our first job, a promotion. We convince ourselves that life will be better after we get married, have a baby, then another. Then we are frustrated that the kids aren't old enough - we'll be more content when they are. After that, we're frustrated that we have teenagers to deal with. We will certainly be happy when they are out of that stage. We tell ourselves that our life will be complete when our spouse gets his or her act together, when we get a nicer car, are able to go on a nice vacation, when we retire. An on and on and
on!

Meanwhile, life keeps moving forward. The truth is, there is no better time to be happy than right now. If not now, when? Your life will always be filled with challenges. It's best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy anyway. One of my favorite quotes comes from Alfred D'Souza. He said, 'For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin - real life. But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be got through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life.' This perspective has helped me to see that there is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way (Carlson, 1997, pp. 169-170)."


Carlson, R. (1997). Don't sweat the small stuff...and it's all small stuff. New

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 13:21 
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When you look beyond the hype, this country is desparately short of skilled workers from engineers to plumbers, brickies, sparkies, you name it.

The proposed solution to this problem (open borders) is actually having the oposite effect. So many unskilled / poorly trained / non-english speeking people are flooding to our shores that its actually pushing those of use who are in demand out.

I spent 14 years in school (all on the local tax payers' expense) and a further 4 years at Uni (also partly at the tax payers' expense). There is no way in the 4 years since I've contributed enough to the economy to pay for all that education. So when I leave for other shores I'm effectively leaving the UK economy out of pocket.

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