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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:50 
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Gizmo wrote:
BBC showing its neutrality again............ :lol:

In an ITV on line poll recently after a week of global warming indoctrination 60% of the people who took part said that they did not thing mankind had any effect on climate.

BTW how many people in 3rd world countries did they phone for the poll. Presumably the minority who had access to a phone... :roll: Not the Global majority they claim.....what a joke.

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Just days ago, US scientists confirmed that more Arctic sea ice melted this year than ever before.


EVER :? Just how long have they been measuring it. This stuff is just taking the piss.


In one of the articles about the "deniers" I read that the Arctic has lost all its ice at least once since it was formed. It also stated that for each time the Arctic lost its ice the Antarctic increased its ice.

Hasn't Kilamanjaro's ice cap expanded again now?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 13:06 
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I won't quote the whole article, but I'll give you the gist.

BBC.co.uk wrote:
Two of Britain's leading environmental thinkers say it is time to develop a quick technical fix for climate change.

[snip]

Professor Rapley, who has just moved to head up the Science Museum from a similar post at the British Antarctic survey, said the two men developed the ocean pipes concept during country walks in James Lovelock's beloved Devon.

Unbeknown to them, a US company, Atmocean, had already begun trials of a very similar technology.

Floating pipes reaching down from the top of the ocean into colder water below move up and down with the swell.

As the pipe moves down, cold water flows up and out onto the ocean surface. A simple valve blocks any downward flow when the pipe is moving upwards.

Colder water is more "productive" - it contains more life, and so in principle can absorb more carbon.

...

Atmocean CEO Phil Kithil has calculated that deploying about 134 million pipes could potentially sequester about one-third of the carbon dioxide produced by human activities each year. But he acknowledges that research is in the early stages.

Image

1. Buoy: Helps hold the pump in position
2. Pump: James Lovelock believes the tubes would be about 100m long to access deep cold water, and 10m wide; Phil Kithil thinks 200m long and 3m wide could be optimum
3. Valve: Could be at the top or bottom of the pipe; top perhaps preferable for maintenance. Water is drawn through the open valve on wave down slopes; no external power needed
4. Cold water: On wave up slopes, cool water spills out of the pump
5. Pump sites: Locations could also be chosen to reduce hurricane risk by cooling surface waters

I wonder what the carbon footprint of each pipe is, as well as for its maintenence?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 01:05 
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smeggy wrote:
BBC.co.uk wrote:
C-charge hiked for gas-guzzlers

Mr Livingstone said the hike was intended to reflect those vehicles "that make the biggest contribution to global warming".

He said: "Londoners are becoming increasingly aware of the need to tackle climate change and this summer's floods were a reminder of the urgency with which we need to reduce CO2 emissions.

"The highest CO2 emitting cars - like some of the so-called Chelsea tractors, high-powered sports cars and luxury executive cars - can produce twice as much carbon dioxide as the kind of car driven by the average Londoner."


The libertarian says: "That man's got a Porsche. Well, with a lot of hard work and luck, I might have one too, one day".

The socialist says: "That man's got a Porsche. Take it off him".

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 13:13 
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BBC.co.uk wrote:
Fuel-cell cars to get test drive

A leading car manufacturer is to give drivers the chance to try out hydrogen-powered vehicles.

As part of "Project Driveway", General Motors (GM) will put more than 100 fuel-cell vehicles in the hands of customers before the end of the year.

[snip]

I won't quote the full article.

I love the fact they chose a Chelsea Tractor style car for the trial:

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Based on the Chevrolet Equinox SUV :D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 23:51 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 18:13 
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Al Gore (and the IPCC) have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for their campaigning.

Not one of the science prizes, you will note. The scientific merit of their arguments is obviously weak and we all know the Peace prize is highly political - just look at previous recipients.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 18:33 
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malcolmw wrote:
Al Gore (and the IPCC) have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for their campaigning.

Not one of the science prizes, you will note. The scientific merit of their arguments is obviously weak and we all know the Peace prize is highly political - just look at previous recipients.


Yeah. Very depressing news. Whatever happened to good judgement?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:19 
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malcolmw wrote:
Al Gore (and the IPCC) have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for their campaigning.

Not one of the science prizes, you will note. The scientific merit of their arguments is obviously weak and we all know the Peace prize is highly political - just look at previous recipients.

Agreed. the exact wording for the reason is:

nobelprize.org wrote:
for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change".
.
Gore was rewarded for his efforts, not for his actual work or the scientific merit of it. Gore doesn't see it that way...

BBC.co.uk wrote:
Gore says prize must spur action

...
He said he accepted the Nobel award on behalf of scientists...

I'm not quoting the rest as just reading it makes me sick.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 13:57 
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Nobel organisation wrote:
...for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change...

They make the unproven assumption that man-made climate change actually exists. They have fallen for the received wisdom instead of remaining neutral and hence the award.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 08:33 
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I found a slick comment on the BBC Have Your Say section:

Added: Friday, 12 October, 2007, 09:31 GMT 10:31 UK

Must've been a slow year for peace if Al Gore won it...

[Martin1983], London, United Kingdom

Recommended by 238 people

:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 17:21 
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How's this for a balanced, unbiased piece from the bbc: Climate scepticism: The top 10.

It starts off well by describing sceptics as "climate sceptics" :roll:
Then they counter some selected claims made by the AGW sceptics – without room for rebuttal :roll:
All the links on the page are pro AGW.


I just paid my licence fee. Maybe I should demand a refund because I don’t want my money being used like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/por ... efault.stm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 17:45 
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okay, to balance things slightly.

A paper from here

that concludes

* That the “hockey stick” should have been so comprehensively invalidated by twohighly qualified, independent, peer reviewed studies and public hearings, and yet is retained in any guise by the IPCC in its latest AR4 report, indicates how insular andunscientific a body the IPCC has become.
* Despite substantial research over the last 20 years by paleoclimatologists at significant expense to taxpayers, there is no historic temperature reconstruction that can accurately replicate the instrumental temperature record from 1860 to 2000, let alone to 2007.
* Unless all important studies are independently verified, it cannot be said that the late 20th century warming was particularly exceptional. And especially so given that no global warming at all has occurred since 1998, a period of eight years over which atmospheric CO2 increased by 15 ppm (4%). It is crystal clear that natural causes are a possible explanation for the entire instrumental temperature record to date.
* So far as I am aware, there is no empirical evidence published in refereed journals that invalidates this null hypothesis.
* Wegman et al. showed that the paleoclimate field is heavily influenced by “a tightlyknit group of individuals who passionately believe in their thesis.” Similar small groups almost certainly exist in other key areas of climate science, such as amongst those scientists who study the instrumental temperature series or who perform the computer model attribution studies.
* The IPCC WGI is effectively run by small groups of inbred scientists from UCAR, CRU and the Hadley Centre, who have a strong and disproportionate influence on its processes and agenda. Rather than the consensus of thousands of scientists, the IPCC conclusions represent the passionate belief of a small number of scientists whose funding and research careers depend heavily upon continuing alarm. The belief is then shared by a much larger number of environmentally and politically motivated individuals, organisations and also businesses that have evolved to service the emission reductions that the IPCC calls for.
* The vested interests of these groups are powerful sources of bias.

Originally from here

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 00:00 
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There does seem to be a backlash.

SUPPORT FOR CALL FOR REVIEW OF UN IPCC

Quote:
Dr Vincent Gray, a member of the UN IPCC Expert Reviewers Panel since its inception, has written to Professor David Henderson, to support the latter’s call for a review of the IPCC and its procedures.

Dr Gray wrote:

Thank you for your latest article containing your analysis of the limitations of the IPCC and your belief that it is possible for it to be reformed.

I have been an "Expert Reviewer" for the IPCC right from the start and I have submitted a very large number of comments on their drafts. It has recently been revealed that I submitted 1,898 comments on the Final Draft of the current Report. Over the period I have made an intensive study of the data and procedures used by IPCC contributors throughout their whole study range. I have a large library of reprints, books and comments and have published many comments of my own in published papers, a book, and in my occasional newsletter, the current number being 157.

I began with a belief in scientific ethics, that scientists would answer queries honestly, that scientific argument would take place purely on the basis of facts, logic and established scientific and mathematical principles.

Right from the beginning I have had difficulty with this procedure. Penetrating questions often ended without any answer. Comments on the IPCC drafts were rejected without explanation, and attempts to pursue the matter were frustrated indefinitely.

Over the years, as I have learned more about the data and procedures of the IPCC I have found increasing opposition by them to providing explanations, until I have been forced to the conclusion that for significant parts of the work of the IPCC, the data collection and scientific methods employed are unsound. Resistance to all efforts to try and discuss or rectify these problems has convinced me that normal scientific procedures are not only rejected by the IPCC, but that this practice is endemic, and was part of the organisation from the very beginning. I therefore consider that the IPCC is fundamentally corrupt. The only "reform" I could envisage, would be its abolition.

I wonder whether I could summarize briefly some of the reasons why the scientific procedures followed by the IPCC are fundamentally unsound. Some of you may have received more detail if you received my recent NZClimate Truth Newsletters (see under “Links” on this website).

The two main "scientific" claims of the IPCC are the claim that "the globe is warming" and "Increases in carbon dioxide emissions are responsible". Evidence for both of these claims is fatally flawed.

To start with the "global warming" claim. It is based on a graph showing that "mean annual global temperature" has been increasing.

This claim fails from two fundamental facts

1. No average temperature of any part of the earth's surface, over any period, has ever been made.

How can you derive a "global average" when you do not even have a single "local" average?

What they actually use is the procedure used from 1850, which is to make one measurement a day at the weather station from a maximum/minimum thermometer. The mean of these two is taken to be the average. No statistician could agree that a plausible average can be obtained this way. The potential bias is more than the claimed "global warming.

2. The sample is grossly unrepresentative of the earth's surface, mostly near to towns. No statistician could accept an "average" based on such a poor sample. It cannot possibly be "corrected"

It is of interest that frantic efforts to "correct" for these uncorrectable errors have produced mean temperature records for the USA and China which show no overall "warming" at all. If they were able to "correct" the rest, the same result is likely

And, then after all, there has been no "global warming", however measured, for eight years, and this year is all set to be cooling. As a result it is now politically incorrect to speak of "global warming". The buzzword is "Climate Change" which is still blamed on the non-existent "warming"

The other flagship set of data promoted by the IPCC are the figures showing the increase in atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. They have manipulated the data in such a way to persuade us (including most scientists) that this concentration is constant throughout the atmosphere. In order to do this, they refrain from publishing any results which they do not like, and they have suppressed no less than 90,000 measurements of atmospheric carbon dioxide made in the last 150 years. Some of these were made by Nobel Prizewinners and all were published in the best scientific journals. Ernst Beck has published on the net all the actual papers.

Why did they do it? It is very subtle. Brush up your maths. In order to calculate the radiative effects of carbon dioxide you have to use a formula involving a logarithm. When such a formula is applied to a set of figures, the low figures have a greater weight in the final average radiation. The figure obtained from the so-called "background figure" is therefore biased in an upwards direction.

My main complaint with the IPCC is in the methods used to "evaluate" computer models. Proper "validation" of models should involve proved evidence that they are capable of future prediction within the range required, and to a satisfactory level of accuracy. Without this procedure, no self-respecting computer engineer would dare to make use of a model for prediction.

No computer climate model has ever been tested in this way, so none should be used for prediction. They sort of accept this by never permitting the use of the term "prediction", only "projection". But they then go ahead predicting anyway.

There is a basic logical principle that a correlation, however convincing, is not proof of causation. Most scientists pay at least lip service to this principle, but its widespread lack of acceptance by the general public have led to IPCC to explore it as one of their methods of "evaluating" models.

The models are so full of inaccurately known parameters and equations that it is comparatively easy to "fudge" an approximate fit to the few climate sequences that might respond. This sort of evidence is the main feature of most of the current promotional lectures.

The most elaborate of all their "evaluation" techniques is far more dubious. Since they have failed to show that any models are actually capable of prediction, they have decided to "evaluate" them by asking the opinions of those who originate them, people with a financial interest in their success. This has become so complex that many have failed to notice that it has no scientific basis, but is just an assembly of the "gut feelings" of self-styled "experts". It has been developed to a complex web of "likelihoods", all of which are assigned fake "probability" levels.

By drawing attention to these obvious facts I have now found myself persona non grata with most of my local professional associations, Surely, I am questioning the integrity of these award-winning scientific leaders of the local science establishment. When you get down to it, that is what is involved.

I somehow understood that the threshold had been passed when I viewed "The Great Global Warming Swindle". Yes, we have to face it. The whole process is a swindle, The IPCC from the beginning was given the licence to use whatever methods would be necessary to provide "evidence" that carbon dioxide increases are harming the climate, even if this involves manipulation of dubious data and using peoples' opinions instead of science to "prove" their case.

The disappearance of the IPCC in disgrace is not only desirable but inevitable. The reason is, that the world will slowly realise that the "predictions" emanating from the IPCC will not happen. The absence of any "global warming" for the past eight years is just the beginning. Sooner or later all of us will come to realise that this organisation, and the thinking behind it, is phony. Unfortunately severe economic damage is likely to be done by its influence before that happens.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:32 
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Today's IPCC report is a masterpiece of the scare variety as debunked in Richard North's book.

I paraphrase:

"Panic Now! The world climate may "flip" next week into a furnace. We are all going to die before Christmas unless we do something. We have 140 countries signed up to this so it must be right."

My take:

All governments seek ways of controlling their populations. If they can come up with a way that the people will easily accept then this gives them a stick to beat you and me into submission. The environment is just such a stick.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 19:24 
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Daily Express

Quote:
BROWN SEEKS GREATER EMISSIONS CUTS
Saturday November 17,2007

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he is seeking to introduce greater long-term cuts in carbon emissions than previously planned.

He was speaking after publication of a major scientific report showing that the Earth is heading for a warmer age at a quickening pace because of human activity.

Mr Brown will set out in the next few days various ways in which he believes emissions can be cut.

The report, which results from six years of research compiled by the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, declares that climate systems have already unquestionably begun to change. The evidence is in the warming of air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting snow and ice and rising sea levels.

Mr Brown said developed countries "must show leadership and take the first and largest responsibility", adding: "That is why I am asking the UK's independent climate change committee to report on whether our target of a 60% reduction in emissions by 2050, already greater than most other countries, should be even stronger still.

"I will be setting out in the next few days some of the further action we will be taking in Britain to reduce carbon emissions, and climate change will be one of the key issues discussed at next week's meeting of Commonwealth leaders."

The report by the Nobel-winning UN scientific panel, agreed on after six days of sometimes tense talks, will be used by political negotiators meeting next month to begin talks on a successor to the Kyoto Protocol, the action plan for controlling greenhouse gas emissions. UN experts say a new global plan must be in place by 2009 to ensure a smooth transition when the Kyoto terms expire in 2012.

The report warns that recent research has heightened concern that the poor and the elderly will suffer most under climate change. Hunger and disease will be more common, droughts, floods and heat waves will afflict the world's poorest regions, and more animal and plant species will vanish.

Unless action is taken, human activity could lead to "abrupt and irreversible changes" that would make the planet unrecognisable.

UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon said after publication of the report that the world must work together to deal with the issue. He said: "We are all in this together, we must work together." And he urged: "Concentrated and sustained action can still avoid some of the most catastrophic scenarios."

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 02:18 
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We're all going to die....apparently

Sky News wrote:
Global Warming Is 'Not Science Fiction'

The climate change threat is "not science fiction" and reversing it is the "defining challenge of our age", the UN chief has warned.

Image
Climate change has already begun

Ban Ki-moon said the potential impact of global warming is "so severe and so sweeping that only urgent, global action will do".

He was speaking in Valencia, Spain, to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which has issued its latest report after six years of research.

It says the Earth is heading towards a warmer age at a faster pace and warned of inevitable human suffering and the threat of species extinction.

It believes climate systems have already begun to change, with warming of air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting snow and ice, and rising sea levels.

The UN Secretary-General has visited some of the areas worse affected so far by climate change.

Mr Ban said in the Amazon "the rain forest, the lungs of the Earth, is being suffocated".

He added: "In Chile the sight of one of the holes in the atmosphere, children wear protective clothing against ultraviolet radiation radiation."

Image
Action needed to save planet

He said some days the children are not allowed to play outside or go to school.

"These scenes are frightening like science fiction movies," he explained.

"But they are even more terrifying because they are real and reversing these threats is the defining challenge of our age."

He also said poorer nations will be hit hardest because melting glaciers will trigger floods and lead to water shortages in South-East Asia and America.

The report will now be used as a how-to guide for policy makers meeting next month in Bali, Indonesia.

They will begin discussing a successor agreement to the Kyoto Protocol, which requires 36 industrial countries to reduce carbon emissions by an average 5% from 1990 levels by 2012.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 02:26 
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The rainforest is being suffocated? Oh no! Then we must feed it with... What is it trees run on? Oh yes, carbon dioxide.

In hot places people sometimes don't go outside at certain parts of the day? Gosh...
"protective clothes against UV radiation" so, most clothes then? And sunglasses?

I'm sure this can all be solved by paying the government.

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 Post subject: Globally more ridiculous
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 20:35 
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http://www.grumpyoldsod.com/sunday%20times%20posters.asp


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 08:50 
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Did anyone else see the program this week (forgot which program as I missed the beginning) about how the earth makes its own CO2 in large amounts, this comes from many different sources such as volcanoes, fossils on the seabed etc. I though it was a very interesting program which to me made a mockery of what we are being told by our masters about global warming.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 13:10 
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Dixie wrote:
...what we are being told by our masters...
about anything is usually driven by an agenda of which we remain in ignorance...while the government - in the knowledge that many simply choose not to - just ignore the fact that (some) of the population can think for themselves


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