Safe Speed Forums

Who felt more threatened, Ms Klass or the two trespassers? If they don't like looking at a woman holding a knife from her own home then get off her land and behave!

But I bet that has done infinitely more to end his career in burglary and helped countless other potential victims than the 'punishment' that would have been exacted by the law and which would not deter him from his nefarious activities in future, but I understand if you can't agree

Oh yes it would, for the later victims... (But I know what you meant )

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It left him so brain damaged he was unable to enter a plea and escaped a custodial sentence.

The problem with vigilante action is that just about all the cases that reach the media do so because they involve the self defence argument, which is good for headlines and selling papers. Over the years I have seen the other kind, where a perfectly innocent person has been seriously injured because they had the misfortune to be mistaken for a criminal. I can't recall all the details but I once dealt with a case where a young woman was pushed to the ground for trying to steal a handbag. It was her own and just happened to be the same design. She hit her head on a table leg and lost the sight of one eye.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

dcb.. you took some of the words from my post


I did wonder about how the press got the story here \i do sympathise with the lady who thinks we failed her of course.. and if she happens to hit on this site.. we can all empathise as it will seem to her as if the "thugs got aways with it yet again".. but we do CATCH them.. and find the sentencing system can. at times, allow them release to be rounded up yet again .. or we did not fill in some form .. we did it in duplicate and not triplicate . or the CPS failed to fill in some form.. in the very odd and extreme .. and indeed . be reassured RARE cases. \it's just our bad luck that the Waily blows it all outa proportion on the few occasions when such "failings in procdure" occur .. and they do not happen as often as the journos would have you believe


Anyway ..whilst I concur that on the basis of the articles .. the officer seemed over-zealous.. I do know from harsh experience of reality that things can spiral .. and an innocent finds him or herself on the wrong end of the law and facing assault/injury or worse charges.. and this is why we would advocate "not wielding a weapon unless no other alternative."

In this case .. they had not entered her home.. and simply shouting at them and dialling 999 ..would perhaps have the same effect in this instance. Had they entered her home.. then defending herself with reasonable force is an adequate defence

\err.. umm.. that's the law and we all know what Charles Dickens thought (I'm tyring to be diplomatic..

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Unusual events have always been in the headlines; dog bites man isn’t news but man bites dog is. The beauty of getting older is that you have a much better frame of reference to see how the world is changing, so I don’t need a newspaper to tell me what’s going on; it’s happening on my doorstep. Two murders within a mile of where I live just last year!

I would still rather it was all weighted against the criminal than honest people going about their business and trying to just live their lives. I’m not being cruel or unkind but the pendulum has swung too far the other way. There has always been crime and abuse but these days it favours the criminal in a way that it has never before.

So I see it as a choice; you either want the abuse skewed towards the criminal, or the innocent. I'll vote towards the crimminal every time. The payback that burglar received was wrong, but if he didn’t thieve in the first place he’d be fine so he has only himself to blame. The exception, as in the woman's bag, doesn't prove the rule and should not be a reason to give all crimminals the upper hand just in case we get it wrong once in a while. The problem with explaining these situations is you only see this o-so-poor thief who has been beaten up. You can’t get the hundred victims of his previous behaviour in the paper or on TV and show the distress, heartache and emotional pain it has caused.

I know elderly people, (through my job), who have suffered at the hands of a burglar and they have lived the rest of their life locked in their own house in fear that if they leave for any reason it may happen again; a prisoner in their own home! Who ever cares about them though and the life-changing destroying experience they have to endure?

I make no apology for saying that if I saw a thug snatch an dear old lady’s handbag and run off only to get run over by a car I would laugh my bollocks off! I’d go over and help him, after checking the lady is okay first and returning her bag, but if he expected sympathy from me he’ll see me playing the smallest violin on Earth - just for him.

If some hoody crosses the road towards me quickly at night and his body language is telling me he’s unlikely to ask me for directions and so I boot him to the ground just as he gets in my face I'm sure I would get done because I am supposed to wait until I feel something sticking in my ribs before I take the ‘appropriate amount’ of action.

Only two things can happen there: I am dead and it’s another headline story of how bad society is or, he’s dead and it’s a headline story of my ‘overreaction. So it’s a no win situation but at least if I am proactive I stand to live and it sends a clear message to anyone who wants to act like a thug when it hits the news, if they report the truth that is. You have only to look at repeat offenders to see how the legal system is letting us down.

This will make you laugh if you haven't heard it.. I read recently how dustmen are not being taken on because they want to fill the posts with criminals who are approaching the end of their sentence. Great! Now I’ve got ex cons ‘casing the joint’ while honest John is out of work trying to find a job and can’t support his family. It’s madness!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Tone - I recently rehomed a relatively small dog of Scottish descent ( Cairn Terrier )- and had one bloke comment on how I might br better off with a Rotty . Unknown to him - these dogs can be very protective - and will attack larger prey and bring them down -their main target area -well it's not something Joe burglar wants to find -a Cairn in a dark front room -but they're very effective at performing a vasectomy -that's how they bring large dogs down-burglars -they'll still have a go -and I thought that collies had a nasty bite .Gave little humper a simlar chew stick - minutes later he was back for more .
Years ago ,neighbour of mine had a person chased by police jump over fence ,to begreeted by large GS-who chased him down garden - plice comment -"He picked wrong garden ".

So - if they pick my house and knock - he'll bark the house down . Break in and perhaps he'll be able to enter the temple of the Vestal Virgins -where there's only two categories eligble to enter -Virgins and Eunichs -and he's not the former ,and my pet has now a taste for a new form of sausages ,certainly not as supplied by Walls .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Sounds like you've got it covered Dave.

I love animals but I can’t stand it when they die. I blubbered like a baby with a smacked arse when I had to leave America and my girlfriend’s pug dog behind after two years. I was more upset at leaving the dog than her.

On the last day I was talking to the dog like “Well I’ve got to go back to England now, I’m sure going to miss you…”, (as if she understood ). But I thought of all the fun times and she just sat there looking at me like she understood with an intense devoted gaze, her head swapping from one side angle view of me to another.

I’m a sloppy goof really but it felt like maybe animals can pick up on sorrow in a way we can’t measure or understand. That’s certainly how it felt anyway. I heard she died last year

Also, I live on my own so it wouldn’t be fair to leave it in the house all day. Maybe when I’m retired, but until then I’ll just have to bite the burglars nuts myself

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Looking back at the origonal post smacks of the new tactics being used by yobs ,but whether of not BIB( or even the Mags)(so apps IG & Fisherman,if I've got it wrong) have cottoned to it . I know our local lads know all about it ,had their advice on more than one occasion -(to pass on to residents).
What this looks like is that a there was an attempt to intimidate/etc which failed ,due to the lady picking up a knife .So in revenge ,the yobs reported her .
Similar to what has happened locally -for example -motorist constantly finds tyres being let down ,with groups of kids hanging round car .They're asked to move on -and they get lippy .Next thing ,they get aggressive ,to the point of violence -motorist protects himself -the one of the group file a report of assault -backed up by the group. CPS swallows bait -hook ,line and sinker .Unless he's got observant neighbours -the kids win .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I had a situation about 15 years ago where a group of local council estate yobs would roam around every night looking for easy targets. one night they broke into my mates house where I happeneed to be lodging, stole his house and car keys and his car and my car keys. Caused a lot of bother but we knew who and where they lived (roughly) . They used to use a footpath to come to our estate which ran past a local lake. i was tempted to get an ex army guy and his mates to ambush them one night as they were strolling over to our estate by the local lake. A hammer and a few broken fingers would have stopped them thieving for a while.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

There is the armed forces view of reasonable defence: the force needed to ensure that your enemy can't harm you - Kill or cripple tends to cover most bases.

As for the arguments I've heard about escalation - let's face given how many cases are reported where criminals go armed anyhow, why shouldn't I put myself on a level footing ? (I know the legal answer, but what about on a practical level)?

Far too often we hear about the rights of those who have commited crimes, we have people who can prove that they have defended themselves in a non OTT manner being prosecuted.

I've asked a lot of police about reasonable force - I've yet to get a straight answer or practicle explanation. I've had the law quoted but nobody can (or will) give me an example of what it actually is.

As a bit of an aside when I've been doing demonstrations of bushcraft skills and run courses I time and time again keep being told by pc's and psco's that my bushcraft knife is an offensive weapon. Yet not once has the axe I carry been questioned - quite frankly I know what I'd rather be hit by. Yet those supposedly in the know seem to be taking a semi hysterical 'Oh my god he's got a knife' approach when anyone with half a wit would work out that the most dangerous thing I do with a knife is skin furries for food !!

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

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