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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:04 
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Daily Telegraph

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Drivers of longer cars to pay more for parking
By Sophie Borland
Last Updated: 2:40am GMT 01/01/2008

Drivers of longer cars are to face higher parking charges under a new scheme, it has emerged.

Owners of many popular family vehicles will be forced to pay almost twice as much for their annual residents' permits under the system being introduced next month by Norwich city council.

Other local authorities will monitor the scheme closely. If it is found to be a success it could be brought in across the country.

Under the scheme, people with cars longer than 14.5ft, such as the Vauxhall Vectra, the BMW 7 and the Nissan Primera, will find that their annual parking fee will rise from £16 a year to £30.

Owners of medium-sized cars, from 12.8ft to 14.5ft, such as the Vauxhall Astra or the Renault Megane, will have to pay £22 a year to park outside their homes.

The price of a permit for drivers of cars less than 12.8ft long, such as the Vauxhall Corsa or Mini Cooper, will be frozen at £16 a year.

The council claims the scheme will help reduce carbon emissions and release more parking space. However, critics say the plans are unfair on large families.

They claim that longer cars do not necessarily cause more pollution. The proposals do not take into account that owners of "green" cars, such as the Toyota Prius, will have to pay extra because they are more than 14.5ft long.

A spokesman for the Local Government Association said: "Councils will be looking at this idea with great interest."

Luke Bosdet, a communications officer for the AA, said: "People who need longer vehicles for their trade, such as those who work in the construction industry, are likely to suffer. Norwich is walking on a minefield."


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The council claims the scheme will help reduce carbon emissions and release more parking space.


:?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:13 
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Dixie wrote:
Drivers of longer cars to pay more for parking


Or perhaps, using a different spin doctor:

Quote:
Drivers of shorter cars to pay less for parking


Owners of Renault Clios rejoice! The trouble is that, of course, the cost just goes up. If they split the difference, so the "4x4 on hire purchase" crowd got it in the neck, and I got a bit back, I'd be happy. After all, they use more space!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:29 
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But how is it going to reduce CO2 and release more parking spaces. They know all these people won’t go out and buy smaller cars so, it can only be another stealth tax on the motorist.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:33 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
Dixie wrote:
Drivers of longer cars to pay more for parking

Or perhaps, using a different spin doctor:

Quote:
Drivers of shorter cars to pay less for parking

Owners of Renault Clios rejoice! The trouble is that, of course, the cost just goes up. If they split the difference, so the "4x4 on hire purchase" crowd got it in the neck, and I got a bit back, I'd be happy. After all, they use more space!

Nope, because nobody gets to pay less.

The way the thresholds are set, drivers of such costly, ostentatious vehicles as Clios and Corsas will be in the second band (above 3.92 m), and estate and saloon versions of limousines such as Focuses and Astras will be in the top band (above 4.45 m), along with anything actually marketed as a "family car" such as (gasp) a Vectra or Mondeo.

The only cars in the bottom band are titchy city cars which aren't exactly much use for carrying a family or indeed four adults.

It's jst another scam by councillors to extort more money out of people :x

And the typical "4x4" is actually shorter than most family saloons of the Mondeo type.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:40 
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PeterE wrote:
And the typical "4x4" is actually shorter than most family
saloons of the Mondeo type.


To paraphrase Jeanette Winterson, length isn't the only dimension! I don't mind much about length (within limits) or height, but fatty 4x4s in cars parks really get me going. You can be sealed out of your own car! Maybe we need double decker cars - hey, there's a money spinner for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 19:58 
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Dixie wrote:
But how is it going to reduce CO2 and release more parking spaces. They know all these people won’t go out and buy smaller cars so, it can only be another stealth tax on the motorist.


Perhaps people would do as I would do - not bother going there. The greatest weapon the motorist has is not to use his car. Trade goes down, jobs get cut, CO2 gets reduced, taxes are lower, business gets concerned. All you have to do (if you can) is walk the dog in the park and go out on your bike, and sod the cars, the dealers, the manufacturers, the chancellor, the merchants, the risk, the noise, the pollution, the congestion. Leave it all for someone else to bother about.

I don't budget for car parking charges.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:04 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
fatty 4x4s in cars parks really get me going. You can be sealed out of your own car!


The width of a typical 4x4 is comparable to that of a luxury saloon (7-series, S-class etc.) or MPV - do they get your blood pressure rising too, or is it only the number of driveshafts that matters?


Valle Crucis wrote:
Perhaps people would do as I would do - not bother going there.


Umm, this is referring to resident permits - i.e. how much it's going to cost Norwich-ites for the priviledge of parking outside their own homes... how can they "not bother going there", when "there" is where they live :?

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Last edited by Twister on Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:10, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:11 
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Twister wrote:
The width of a typical 4x4 is comparable to that of a luxury saloon (7-series, S-class etc.) or MPV - do they get your blood pressure rising too, or is it only the number of driveshafts that matters?


Don't make me laugh! Maybe there should be a special section for such vehicles, so that they can all seal themselves out of (or into) their own vehicles as much as they like without bothering us with their stupidity.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:15 
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Twister wrote:
this is referring to resident permits - i.e. how much it's going to cost Norwich-ites for the priviledge of parking outside their own homes... how can they "not bother going there", when "there" is where they live :?


By having a wonderful invention (which I am lucky enough to possess) called a driveway, with a garage at the bottom end of it! It works wonders.

OK, look, in the context we are talking about, people with long cars are the freeloaders, so go after them., People like me with short, stubby cars should get a rebate, coz we bunch up well. It's only fair.

But in the places with slots, they should go after the long and fat ones, or at least make them park in a special section away from normal cars.

Surely that's the best way of doing things.


Last edited by Valle Crucis on Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:19, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:17 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
Twister wrote:
this is referring to resident permits - i.e. how much it's going to cost Norwich-ites for the priviledge of parking outside their own homes... how can they "not bother going there", when "there" is where they live :?


By having a wonderful invention (which I am lucky enough to possess) called a driveway, with a garage at the bottom end of it! It works wonders.


But allot of people don't have the luxury of having a driveway.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:17 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
Twister wrote:
The width of a typical 4x4 is comparable to that of a luxury saloon (7-series, S-class etc.) or MPV - do they get your blood pressure rising too, or is it only the number of driveshafts that matters?

Don't make me laugh!

If you care to consult the data section of any motoring magazine you will find this to be true. For example, a BMW X5 is 1933mm wide, a 7-series 1902 mm - not exactly much of a difference.

A BMW X3 is a whole 13 mm wider than a Ford Focus.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:21 
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Dixie wrote:
But allot of people don't have the luxury of having a driveway.


That's true, but they could afford the "inverse luxury" of a smaller car, surely?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:26 
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PeterE wrote:
a BMW X5 is 1933mm wide, a 7-series 1902 mm .. BMW X3 is a .. 13 mm wider than a Ford Focus.


Yes, they are getting fatter and fatter. Thanks for that.

And a Focus is wider than an Escort. And an Escort is wider than an Anglia. You can see where this goes... can't you? As people get fatter, they drive fatter cars! The irony is that it's harder and harder to get in and out of them!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:31 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
PeterE wrote:
a BMW X5 is 1933mm wide, a 7-series 1902 mm .. BMW X3 is a .. 13 mm wider than a Ford Focus.

Yes, they are getting fatter and fatter. Thanks for that.

And a Focus is wider than an Escort. And an Escort is wider than an Anglia. You can see where this goes... can't you? As people get fatter, they drive fatter cars! The irony is that it's harder and harder to get in and out of them!

Yes, cars as a whole are getting bigger - full marks for spotting that.

But your proposition that "4x4s" are significantly wider than conventional luxury saloons is exposed as completely untrue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 20:53 
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PeterE wrote:
Yes, cars as a whole are getting bigger - full marks for spotting that.


So are the fatties inside them, eh?

PeterE wrote:
But your proposition that "4x4s" are significantly wider than conventional luxury saloons is exposed as completely untrue.


I'm going to a panto in the West End tomorrow, so I'll dispense with the "oh yes I did, oh now you didn't" routine, if you don’t mind. But what I did say is that "fatty 4x4s in cars parks really get me going". Which is a statement of fact that doesn’t preclude fatty 7-series from getting on my tits as well, although I used to own a rather nice BMW, so I'm a bit biased there.

PS: Try driving a BMW X5 fatty 4x4 between a set of iron posts set 1920mm apart, and then get back to me with your revised definition of “significant”!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 21:03 
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Surly it is just people’s inability to park?

I have had small cars box my car in so I have great difficulty getting in my car, once on person in a 206 parked so close to my passenger door, I had to reverse out before my passenger could get in.
I have parked next to many a 4x4 with ample room to get into my car. If we are going for sweeping generalisations, bigger cars tend to be better parked than small ones as there is less room for error when parking.
:D :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 21:17 
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ree.t wrote:
bigger cars tend to be better parked than small ones as there is less room for error when parking.


Yes. To park as well as drivers of small vehicles, drivers of large vehicles must be more careful. I think that's the thrust of it. The problem (as PeterE says) is that cars (and especially 4x4s) get fatter all the time (as do their occupants) but parking spaces don't. So drivers of large vehicles must become more and more careful with each fatter car they buy.

That's quite right. Eventually, they'll spend so much time parking carefully, they won't have time to fill their shopping bags with more food. Then they might start to get thinner, and things will go back to normal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 21:29 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
As people get fatter, they drive fatter cars!


Oh, so *that's* why cars are getting wider. And here I was thinking it was because wider cars provide the space needed for side-impact-resilient doors, airbag modules, energy absorbent materials on exposed surfaces, more supportive/restraining seats...

...and yes, to provide space for larger people. Indeed, people are getting taller, more broad chested/shouldered etc., but it's only *some* of these people who are bigger purely through being obese - most of us (even those of us who are carrying a bit more weight than is considered ideal) would still be too big to comfortably fit inside the average car of the 50's or 60's alongside someone else of similar build, simply because that's the way humans are evolving.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 21:36 
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I think this is a great idea! Keep putting pressure on Chelsea tractors I say. They have a higher V.E.L., insurance, they eat fuel at a geometric rate, and kill people they hit with considerable ease. I personally believe that you would have to show a need to own a big 4x4 ie a farmer or towing horses etc. Just wait untill diesel costs £5 a litre, then all these paranoid mums on School runs might get what they should have in the first place, a people carrier. That said however I think its a bit harsh to increase it for a familly saloon such as the vectra :(

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 21:41 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
But what I did say is that "fatty 4x4s in cars parks really get me going". Which is a statement of fact that doesn’t preclude fatty 7-series from getting on my tits as well


Yet rather than the more appropriate "fatty cars", you opted for the phrase "fatty 4x4s" instead, which suggested (along with your earlier "4x4 on hire purchase" comment) that it was more their 4x4 nature than their physical size which offends you.

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