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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 18:08 
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Why are you always being so negative? I can turn a blind eye to it for a couple of posts but it does start to grate after the umpteenth time! Who gives a crap whether it is up for review or not, even if they make it legal they'll never know whether or not you are using bio. Why do you keep repeating 2500 litres? Yes, we get it already, thank you. Only an idiot would buy a new car, an even bigger idiot would do something to void the warranty. I am not saying you should run 100% veg. So what if you have to change your fuel filter? It costs what, £5? Is that such a price to pay for being able use several different types of fuel? You just haven't realised the potential and implications of being able to run on veggie.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 21:40 
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Mole wrote:
Other major manufacturers won't even allow that on their newer "Euro IV" diesel engines. I freely admit I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision myself, but I can't see what they'd stand to loose by advocating biodiesel in their products if it didn't do any harm. It's not like they are owned by the petrochemical companies!


When I had my C4 I spoke to Citroen about thier Bio 30 plan - you use Citroen approved fuel suppliers and you could run up to 30% bio mix, yet the guy from Citroen UK tells me 'off the record' that Citroen France run thier cars on 100% bio - the fuel pump / injector manufacturers will not warranty them but they have had no significant number or increase in the rate of fuel pump / injector failures.

His did comment that whislt the fuel pump / injector manufacturers are not owned by the petochem companies they work very closely with them and produce uproducts optimised for thier fuels, if they started providing warranties for a competing fuel (biodiesel) the how much cooperation would they get, what advantage would they gain ? It did make me wonder.

Talking to an engineer who works at Dunton on new diesel engine designs, he echoed the same comments about the ties between the fuel pump / injector manufacturers and the petochem companies.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 21:25 
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Flynn wrote:
Why are you always being so negative? I can turn a blind eye to it for a couple of posts but it does start to grate after the umpteenth time! Who gives a crap whether it is up for review or not, even if they make it legal they'll never know whether or not you are using bio. Why do you keep repeating 2500 litres? Yes, we get it already, thank you. Only an idiot would buy a new car, an even bigger idiot would do something to void the warranty. I am not saying you should run 100% veg. So what if you have to change your fuel filter? It costs what, £5? Is that such a price to pay for being able use several different types of fuel? You just haven't realised the potential and implications of being able to run on veggie.

They'll know quite easily. My van was stopped and checked by a multi-agency team down London...they not only took, and tested, a sample of fuel they also checked I was who I said I was...and that I was not drawing benefit...and that the van was insured/taxed/mot'ed...all in 5 minutes. They were looking for illegal fuel...as in red diesel (and you cannot remove the dyes...there is a chemical marker as well as the colour)....they also can look for other fuel....something called a liquid chromatograhy thing...very cunning...if my van had been running on the red diesel it would have been seized at that point....several already had been....so don't say they can't...they can.
As for the benefits of running on various fuels...hey...I'VE BEEN RUNNING ON VEGETABLE OIL FOR YEARS...LONG BEFORE YOU HAD EVEN HEARD OF IT....
It's all down to the viscosity of the fuel/oil...and down to its CLEANLINESS.
Manufactured biodiesel made in the home is not as clean as diesel from the pumps....quite apart from the need for filtering to motor fuel standards...there is also a need to ensure that the byproducts are adequately removed...things such as methanol/sodium hydroxide and water...and the parts of the oils you will not need...such as glycerin and other rubbish.
As for viscosity....the system runs on high pressure....but regulated high pressure...the injectors (mechanical) have a set size for the hole....with a set pressure and a set size orifice you get a reduced amount of fuel injected when the fuel is thicker. The injection system (common rail/electronic) runs at the same set pressure....and unless the electronics are aware/made-aware of the variation in viscosity then they too will inject less fuel than needed. The engine runs "weak", or "rich".

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 19:27 
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Okay I get the idea grandpa, don't raise your blood pressure :roll: I don't know why you are on about red diesel, you are the one who brought it up. They sell kits to make biodiesel with everything included you need to make the diesel. Also with a mechanical (non common rail) diesel you can mix veggie with the diesel as much as 50/50.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:38 
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Using rapeseed oil as the additive to pump diesel (average "thickness") I found that the pump diesel "thickness" was exceeded at about 30%....
A useful site is THIS, which gives you some information that will help: Maybe.
And that fails to include the rather dramatic thickening at lower temperatures. But not so much here where things are milder....
Putting a mixture 50/50 fuel oil and vegetable oil into the freezer (did it years ago) at -21C provided me with the rather interesting observation that the mixture resembled treacle...not so much thicker, but a lot more "clingy" when tipped about...
And since I already know two people who go the transesterification route to biodiesel I already know that it isn't plain sailing.
Getting rid of the byproducts is the difficult part.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:11 
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Fuel prices are going to be increasingly important to me; so far the Focus has returned 18mpg. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 13:45 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Fuel prices are going to be increasingly important to me; so far the Focus has returned 18mpg. :(


eep! Did you get the ASBO edition or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 14:12 
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Yep - the green asbo special.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 23:09 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Fuel prices are going to be increasingly important to me; so far the Focus has returned 18mpg. :(



Focus tractor ?? :shock: :shock:

Go VAG young man .

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Price/s
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 21:31 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Yep - the green asbo special.

Remember the old phrase, smiles per gallon over miles per gallon! :D

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