Safe Speed Forums

I was just wondering what your views were on the subject.

Personally I think that while alcohol and tobacco are legal, it's contradictory to keep cannabis illegal (and not just "slightly" illegal, as people can still be arrested for carrying small amounts). Alcohol and tobacco kill tens of thousands of people a year in the UK alone. Cannabis has never killed anyone, and yet commentators regularly suggest that because (for example) it may possibly exacerbate psychosis in a relatively small number of people, that means that it should definitely be kept illegal, and probably reclassified as Class B.

When you compare cannabis to alcohol, it comes off better in all sorts of ways. It doesn't make people violent like alcohol. It's a soft drug, whereas alcohol is hard. It is weakly psychologically addictive for a minority of users; alcohol is physically addicting and withdrawal can kill. It doesn't even impair driving as much (although I'm not suggesting for a minute that anyone should drive under its influence). I can't help thinking that if people were sitting in pubs toking instead of drinking all night, chucking-out time simply wouldn't be an issue. That doesn't mean I think that should happen, it's just something I find interesting: the one psychoactive drug that police let people consume gives them (and hospital A&E wards) by far the most problems per user. If alcohol had been "discovered" today then there is absolutely no doubt that it would have been made Class A, with plenty of sanctimonious hysteria.

There's also the problem of medicinal use, which is where I tend to get emotional. It is beyond question that it relieves pain (more effectively and safely than any other drug) for huge numbers of people suffering from MS, glaucoma and other chronic diseases. It is incredibly heartless to threaten these people with arrest (and, ultimately, prison) just for trying to make their lives bearable. Living every minute with chronic pain must be an absolutely ghastly existence, and society should be doing its best to help these patients, instead of hindering them. It is ludicrous that in this country people can be given diamorphine (heroin) for their pain but not cannabis. Patients can vaporise or eat cannabis, thereby eliminating the carcinogenic effects of smoking it. If they say it works, and many doctors privately agree, who are politicians to argue with them?

I see parallels between the laws on cannabis possession and speeding, and I think it strange that most people who are relaxed about cannabis seem not to be so about speeding (and vice versa). Perhaps it's because one is traditionally a left-wing cause and the other right. I regard both issues as unwarranted state intereference, and believe that a strong conservative case can be made for legalising cannabis. I see both "offences" as victimless in themselves, and I think that as responsible adults we should be able to make up our own minds as to whether we "commit" them, just as we are allowed to decide when and whether to enjoy alcohol (and quite right too; I've cut back since my student days and avoid hangovers like the plague, but I certainly don't object to a few!)

I'll wait for some replies (at least one of which I'm sure will be from a ) before I prattle on any further. In summary: legalise it so that we can free up police resources, bring in lots of tax, remove the criminal element overnight and send out consistent, respected messages, to name but a few reasons. If we absolutely must keep it illegal then let's at least make personal possession a fixed penalty offence; why shouldn't it be when the likes of shoplifting is? Can you imagine most of the cabinet admitting to having shoplifted before? Cannabis possession is not considered to be a "proper crime" and therefore the books should reflect that.

And I'm stone cold sober if anyone was wondering....

Can't really argue with any of that. Alcohol is well recognised as being objectively more dangerous:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... .stm#drugs

Doubtless this is partly due to the large doses that people take alcohol and tobacco in, but since that is a true part of the situation I think it's fair to allow for that.

I'm not relaxed about cannabis.
I think that it should be classed as class 1 and those trading in it locked away for life, as should those trading in other class 1 drugs.
Obviously, you have no contact with those users who turn into paranoid, drivelling wrecks after use ?
I have a family member who does just that....
Oh, and that doesn't even take into account the latest "fad" that traders have....dusting the grass with crack cocaine.....better buzz and the simple dope user then becomes a better customer....
Walking past pamposts decorated with the rotting corpses of drug dealers may be offensive to start with, but the end result would justify the minor smell problems.

The only reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is that they were in common use long before they were known to be dangerous.
Both have become part of the fabric of our society and it would be impossible to ban them.


As with alcohol and tobacco we tend to look at friends who use cannabis with no apparent harmful effects and use that as "evidence" that the stuff is safe.
We conviently forget about the alcoholics, the drink drivers, the pub fights, those who need liver transplants, the ones with heart disease or lung cancer etc because they don't fit our opinion.

I see the effects cannabis has on people in court and at work and have no doubts whatsoever that downgrading it to class C was a big mistake.

I would consider class C the appropriate class for cannabis. A class C drug is still illegal and mere possession could technically be punished by a 2 year jail term and an unlimited fine. Quite severe if you compare this with alcohol.

On a different note, I have strong objections to the drug being used as a political pawn by politicians wishing to show how 'tough' they are on drugs. Reclassification will do nothing to help the people who need help.

Was the law ever a detterent when the drug was a class B substance?

cannaboids have a positive side.
They are powerful medicines and my wife is prescribed a cannabis for her MS. It has good effects on her sleep and her neurological control of her spasms and comes in a metered spray administered under the tongue. you cannot take too much in one day as the metering has a time clock.

I know a couple of cannabis users who are a bit spaced out, (like Dylan from magic roundabout) but this is from years of high use. Also it is hard to know what other drugs they may have mis-used.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I've seen Friday night drinkers in similar states.



Cannabis £5 per gram, Crack cocaine £50+ per gram, and they are giving it away I'm sorry I do not believe that, do you have any references for this assertion. When I was a lad "it's mixed with herion" was the 'scare story'.

Current drug laws don't work!
Is there more or less drug law and enforcement than the 60's/70's? more
Is there more or less drug usage and drug crime? more

Shows how well prohibition works, it increases prices and thus potential profits for the criminals, Alcohol prohibition in the USA should be the lesson to learn from.

Stopping the MASSIVE profits dealers can make must be the priority, removing these bad examples / role models of 'success' from our estates and suburbs may give far better results for society.

fatboytim

(My Bold)

All I can say is that there would be an awful lot of people in jail for the rest of their lives!

Do you really think this would be the best use of our very limited resources?

I should begin by pointing out that I’m on the fence on this one. I’ve never taken or handled any illegal drugs (I’m so boring) but I won’t rule out taking them when my body eventually starts failing.


Is it the ‘dusting’ that causes the nervous damage? (the concept of dusting may be new but drugs have always been mixed with harmful substances to 'stretch' them).

If it was legalised and regulated in the same way as say alcohol would there still be such a problem?

Are you asking about the alcohol problem or cannabis problem?.

What direct problems does recreational cannabis use cause to society?

It has been estimated (recent radio reports) there are 2m occasional users in the UK.

Some Politicians, Doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants and even some clergy are bound to be in that number, they perform their professional duties with no problems, so what's the issue with what they discretely do in the privacy of their own home.

fatboytim

Or is it just maybe possible that something's positive effect on the majority of the population far outweighs its negative effects on a few addicts/abusers?



Here's another view:
Why is marijuana illegal?

Classification will affect nothing it's just some bullshit label applied by a government that has no idea of the drug use in this country.
Dope is a MASSIVE business and if you think that all involved in the trade are all hoody wearing chavs then you are in for a shock.



We have been doing this from the start to NO effect whatsoever with convictions increasing.
A bit like the speed camera issue really.
Besides they are having to release offenders early as it is due to overcrowding.



If you research into how many people smoke 'draw' then I can guarantee you will be able to times that figure by at least a thousand yet we get these isolated cases of people losing it but I imagine if 50 million Mars Bars are sold in the UK every year then one or two of those consumers will have some sort of 'episode'.
I have had contact with users and lots of them over the years and have yet to see anyone 'lose it' as you have stated.



An urban myth mate. It would be like wrapping £5 notes up in £50 notes in the hope of increasing your £5 note sales.

To clarify: if cannabis were to be produced to the standards that ensures food is fit for human consumption and is sold through certified outlets, would there still be significant complications arising from cannabis use?

I think it depends on the way you use it. As a drug you can take it into your system in many ways. Smoking it is probably the worst as you get all the other smoking related chemicals in your lungs.

The older I get the more I disagree with "officials" telling me what I can or cannot do.

There should be laws to protect children but adults should be alowed to do anything they want so long as it does not affect others.

Ban the nanny state!

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Speed camera policy Kills

I disagree with your analogy.
It would be more like wrapping the fiver with a small part of the much more potent £50 note, say 1/100th of it. If the additional potency resulted with say 33% extra sales and the original profit margin was say 50% (if my maths is correct) the overall net profit will be 7% higher - it's a good investment.

A dealers problems are usually due to supply rather than demand.
And selling by the quarter or ounce instead of the eight would give a better return than the 7%.
Given the choice of forking out more or leaving without, the punters will pay it.

This is irrelevant; the dusting can be done in addition to the size of the sale.


This means one of two things:
a) there are not enough drugs to go around
b) there are too many dealers.

If a) then the dealers can inflate the price and increase the potency to ensure return custom despite the increased price – “the punters will pay it”.
If b) then the dealers could increase addictive potency so displacing custom from other dealers

So either way it doesn’t matter.

Harder drugs have a greater addictive potency per unit cost; hence a light dusting of this into something perceived as otherwise 'mostly harmless' can make good business sense.


Regardless, I think we could all agree that today’s illicit drugs are stretched out with all manner of substances, some of them harmful, to increase profit.
My overall point is: when taken in moderation (like alcohol ) is untainted cannabis harmful? Even if cannabis was smoked so tainting it, would it be anymore harmful than the crap inhaled from today’s cigarettes?

I can see what you are saying Smeggy but it just doesn't happen or if it does it is very rare. Although I have seen it marinated in Vodka? quite how this works I don't know, is it a chemical thing or simply flavour?
Anyway that aside I fail to see the kids listening to Gordon Brown and Hazel Blears or whoever slagging it off when you have someone like Noel Gallagher saying it's cool.

Alcohol if used in moderation is positively beneficial to health. The vast majority of people consume alcohol without developing cirrhosis of the liver or beating their wives up on Saturday night.

Can the same honestly be said of cannabis, especially in view of many recent reports suggesting it is a major trigger of psychosis?

And if it was legalised, I imagine most employers would still refuse to employ declared cannabis users, and test for it in medicals.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

If the addicts where you live are paying £5 per G on the puff and £50+ per G on the crack, then they are being SERIOUSLY ripped off.

Puff is £10 on the eigth (eigth being 3½ G's), while charley is £35 on the gram.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?